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[Albion] Shipping 7 goals - our midfield?



B

Balders

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2013
431
I know I'm going to get pelters for this, but here goes ;)

Lots has been said about our "suicidal" formation of playing one in Midfield in the first half, as others have said, in general it was working to an extent. The MOTD analysis is pretty decent (shock) but what it highlights was how NF scored their goals and it didn't have a lot to do with winning the battle in the middle of the park, they were concentrating on overloads with width, and were incredibly successful down our left hand side - spolier....... they felt a bit sorry for Tariq and I have to agree with them but most on here won't!

So breaking down the 7 goals:
3 of them are easy, 2 corners and a Bart "brain fart" - nothing to do with the middle of the park.

First goal - Jack might have done better, but his flick ended up in the space occupied by 3 Brighton players (in the middle of the park) and one NF player, Danillo who won the ball and played the killer ball to Gibbs-White. I'd be looking at Mitoma for this one..... overload down our left?

1738497937406.png


Third goal - Mitoma was off the pitch sorting his contact lenses out!

1738498175674.png


Tariq is "no mans land" with no Mitoma for help. JPVH may have done better picking up Wood btw

1738498291318.png


Fourth goal - Elanga skins Dunk down our left - we haven't got a bad shape there imho

1738498435124.png


Sixth goal - moving to two in CM, it's actually O'Reilly that gives the ball away - done again down our left....

1738498523727.png



At the end of the day, for me, none of the goals were down to playing a suicidal one in midfield, 2 corners, 1 brain fart and the other 4 coming down our left (one when we were down to 10 men lacking an extra player on that side) Two of those goals we gave the ball away (both by our CM) and one of those, 1 NF player got to the ball with three (yes three) of our players in the middle of the park.

It's interesting that Mitoma got hooked at half time - our shape on the flanks was nothing any different than many games this season. Nothing really happened down Veltman's side, probably because Minteh was tracking back and doing his job.

Let the pelters begin.......
 






Blues Guitarist

Blues Guitarist

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2020
693
St Johann in Tirol
Balders said:
I know I'm going to get pelters for this, but here goes ;)

Lots has been said about our "suicidal" formation of playing one in Midfield in the first half, as others have said, in general it was working to an extent. The MOTD analysis is pretty decent (shock) but what it highlights was how NF scored their goals and it didn't have a lot to do with winning the battle in the middle of the park, they were concentrating on overloads with width, and were incredibly successful down our left hand side - spolier....... they felt a bit sorry for Tariq and I have to agree with them but most on here won't!

So breaking down the 7 goals:
3 of them are easy, 2 corners and a Bart "brain fart" - nothing to do with the middle of the park.

First goal - Jack might have done better, but his flick ended up in the space occupied by 3 Brighton players (in the middle of the park) and one NF player, Danillo who won the ball and played the killer ball to Gibbs-White. I'd be looking at Mitoma for this one..... overload down our left?

View attachment 196016

Third goal - Mitoma was off the pitch sorting his contact lenses out!

View attachment 196018

Tariq is "no mans land" with no Mitoma for help. JPVH may have done better picking up Wood btw

View attachment 196019

Fourth goal - Elanga skins Dunk down our left - we haven't got a bad shape there imho

View attachment 196020

Sixth goal - moving to two in CM, it's actually O'Reilly that gives the ball away - done again down our left....

View attachment 196021


At the end of the day, for me, none of the goals were down to playing a suicidal one in midfield, 2 corners, 1 brain fart and the other 4 coming down our left (one when we were down to 10 men lacking an extra player on that side) Two of those goals we gave the ball away (both by our CM) and one of those, 1 NF player got to the ball with three (yes three) of our players in the middle of the park.

It's interesting that Mitoma got hooked at half time - our shape on the flanks was nothing any different than many games this season. Nothing really happened down Veltman's side, probably because Minteh was tracking back and doing his job.

Let the pelters begin.......
Click to expand...
Interesting analysis, thanks. Many people seemed to be tracking back, I don't think the shape was the problem - we just played very poorly all over the pitch.
 


Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
24,266
Brighton
Blues Guitarist said:
Interesting analysis, thanks. Many people seemed to be tracking back, I don't think the shape was the problem - we just played very poorly all over the pitch.
Click to expand...
If there was a way of giving Forest a goal, we found it!

The worst defensive display since we’ve been in the Premier League. Dunk, Bart, JPvH and Lamptey were all awful. It’s like they all saved their worst game of the season to play at the same time.

If they need Baleba ahead of them for protection all the time, they all need replacing!

Good analysis.
 


macbeth

macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
4,414
six feet beneath the moon
the consequences of fielding a defence with a total cost of about 4 million. chickens coming home to roost with that one. are there things the manager should have done differently across the season? yes. are there aspects of the playing style i don’t like? yes. but ultimately he cannot legislate for the sunday league level defending we’ve seen for nigh on 18 months now, and that is the reason we’ve lost so many points, as opposed anything in the midfield or up front. that won’t improve until we have better defenders playing for us.
 






B

Balders

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2013
431
macbeth said:
the consequences of fielding a defence with a total cost of about 4 million. chickens coming home to roost with that one. are there things the manager should have done differently across the season? yes. are there aspects of the playing style i don’t like? yes. but ultimately he cannot legislate for the sunday league level defending we’ve seen for nigh on 18 months now, and that is the reason we’ve lost so many points, as opposed anything in the midfield or up front. that won’t improve until we have better defenders playing for us.
Click to expand...
Nailed it (y)

We could have played 4 or 5 in the middle of the park yesterday and it wouldn't have stopped NF concentrating on overloads with width, with in all probability the same result.

Attacking a formation is lazy, probably because it suits the agenda of the minority that are always the loudest!
 


B

Balders

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2013
431
Hugo Rune said:
If there was a way of giving Forest a goal, we found it!

The worst defensive display since we’ve been in the Premier League. Dunk, Bart, JPvH and Lamptey were all awful. It’s like they all saved their worst game of the season to play at the same time.

If they need Baleba ahead of them for protection all the time, they all need replacing!

Good analysis.
Click to expand...
"If they need Baleba ahead of them for protection all the time, they all need replacing!"

Loved that goon Keown's comment on MOTD that the reason he was successful was that Arsenal played 2 DMs in front of him to protect him - probably from his own inadequacies :ROFLMAO:
 




W

Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
9,047
Balders said:
I know I'm going to get pelters for this, but here goes ;)

Lots has been said about our "suicidal" formation of playing one in Midfield in the first half, as others have said, in general it was working to an extent. The MOTD analysis is pretty decent (shock) but what it highlights was how NF scored their goals and it didn't have a lot to do with winning the battle in the middle of the park, they were concentrating on overloads with width, and were incredibly successful down our left hand side - spolier....... they felt a bit sorry for Tariq and I have to agree with them but most on here won't!

So breaking down the 7 goals:
3 of them are easy, 2 corners and a Bart "brain fart" - nothing to do with the middle of the park.

First goal - Jack might have done better, but his flick ended up in the space occupied by 3 Brighton players (in the middle of the park) and one NF player, Danillo who won the ball and played the killer ball to Gibbs-White. I'd be looking at Mitoma for this one..... overload down our left?

View attachment 196016

Third goal - Mitoma was off the pitch sorting his contact lenses out!

View attachment 196018

Tariq is "no mans land" with no Mitoma for help. JPVH may have done better picking up Wood btw

View attachment 196019

Fourth goal - Elanga skins Dunk down our left - we haven't got a bad shape there imho

View attachment 196020

Sixth goal - moving to two in CM, it's actually O'Reilly that gives the ball away - done again down our left....

View attachment 196021


At the end of the day, for me, none of the goals were down to playing a suicidal one in midfield, 2 corners, 1 brain fart and the other 4 coming down our left (one when we were down to 10 men lacking an extra player on that side) Two of those goals we gave the ball away (both by our CM) and one of those, 1 NF player got to the ball with three (yes three) of our players in the middle of the park.

It's interesting that Mitoma got hooked at half time - our shape on the flanks was nothing any different than many games this season. Nothing really happened down Veltman's side, probably because Minteh was tracking back and doing his job.

Let the pelters begin.......
Click to expand...
Possibly their manager gave them a proper roasting following the 5-0 defeat at Bournemouth and they responded accordingly but we were second best to every ball, often had players in the right position but we lost most 50:50s and there were occasions when 2 or 3 players bunched and still couldn't win the ball.
 


W

Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
9,047
Balders said:
I know I'm going to get pelters for this, but here goes ;)

Lots has been said about our "suicidal" formation of playing one in Midfield in the first half, as others have said, in general it was working to an extent. The MOTD analysis is pretty decent (shock) but what it highlights was how NF scored their goals and it didn't have a lot to do with winning the battle in the middle of the park, they were concentrating on overloads with width, and were incredibly successful down our left hand side - spolier....... they felt a bit sorry for Tariq and I have to agree with them but most on here won't!

So breaking down the 7 goals:
3 of them are easy, 2 corners and a Bart "brain fart" - nothing to do with the middle of the park.

First goal - Jack might have done better, but his flick ended up in the space occupied by 3 Brighton players (in the middle of the park) and one NF player, Danillo who won the ball and played the killer ball to Gibbs-White. I'd be looking at Mitoma for this one..... overload down our left?

View attachment 196016

Third goal - Mitoma was off the pitch sorting his contact lenses out!

View attachment 196018

Tariq is "no mans land" with no Mitoma for help. JPVH may have done better picking up Wood btw

View attachment 196019

Fourth goal - Elanga skins Dunk down our left - we haven't got a bad shape there imho

View attachment 196020

Sixth goal - moving to two in CM, it's actually O'Reilly that gives the ball away - done again down our left....

View attachment 196021


At the end of the day, for me, none of the goals were down to playing a suicidal one in midfield, 2 corners, 1 brain fart and the other 4 coming down our left (one when we were down to 10 men lacking an extra player on that side) Two of those goals we gave the ball away (both by our CM) and one of those, 1 NF player got to the ball with three (yes three) of our players in the middle of the park.

It's interesting that Mitoma got hooked at half time - our shape on the flanks was nothing any different than many games this season. Nothing really happened down Veltman's side, probably because Minteh was tracking back and doing his job.

Let the pelters begin.......
Click to expand...
Good analysis...
 


Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
38,239
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
The overloads were unquestionably a thing. Happened on our right too, right in front of us when Veltman completely lost Elanga on the touch line behind him. But that was because he was also trying to cover an inside left. NF had seen Minteh track back and overloaded to the inside on our right rather than on the overlap.

Also no doubt Mitoma’s tracking back wasn’t what was wanted and he got hooked, but where do you want him? Attacking players and taking them on or playing as an extra wingback? In a traditional 4-4-2 you’d have a left midfielder getting up and down. They’d be less effective attacking but better at covering breaks.

And the defence had no cover. Forest’s centre backs (all three of whom are better than ours) ran the game. They’d win it centrally and get it wide quickly. We didn’t have the midfield to press them high, nor double cover the wide players. When we went wide Forest were able to put two or sometimes three pressing players on.

I think the midfield thing is overplayed for sure and some great analysis in the OP. But the lack of genuine midfield players allowed the overloads IMO. Don’t pick Mitoma and expect him to spend most time in his own half.
 






A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
21,441
Deepest, darkest Sussex
It would be interesting to know whether having a decent, actual left back might have helped, it was clear Lamptey wasn’t up to it
 


B

Balders

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2013
431
Guinness Boy said:
The overloads were unquestionably a thing. Happened on our right too, right in front of us when Veltman completely lost Elanga on the touch line behind him. But that was because he was also trying to cover an inside left. NF had seen Minteh track back and overloaded to the inside on our right rather than on the overlap.

Also no doubt Mitoma’s tracking back wasn’t what was wanted and he got hooked, but where do you want him? Attacking players and taking them on or playing as an extra wingback? In a traditional 4-4-2 you’d have a left midfielder getting up and down. They’d be less effective attacking but better at covering breaks.

And the defence had no cover. Forest’s centre backs (all three of whom are better than ours) ran the game. They’d win it centrally and get it wide quickly. We didn’t have the midfield to press them high, nor double cover the wide players. When we went wide Forest were able to put two or sometimes three pressing players on.

I think the midfield thing is overplayed for sure and some great analysis in the OP. But the lack of genuine midfield players allowed the overloads IMO. Don’t pick Mitoma and expect him to spend most time in his own half.
Click to expand...
Or to turn it on it's head, an excellent tactic to take Mitoma out of the game as an attacking threat?

I'm in the school of thought that compared to Minteh yesterday, Mitoma wasn't as effective as he usually is at tracking back, hence he got hooked. But by no means am I saying this is all on Mitoma, I'm also in the school of thought that all of our back four had their worst games of the season, all at the same time and any formation isn't going to change that......
 




Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
38,239
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Balders said:
Or to turn it on it's head, an excellent tactic to take Mitoma out of the game as an attacking threat?

I'm in the school of thought that compared to Minteh yesterday, Mitoma wasn't as effective as he usually is at tracking back, hence he got hooked. But by no means am I saying this is all on Mitoma, I'm also in the school of thought that all of our back four had their worst games of the season, all at the same time and any formation isn't going to change that......
Click to expand...
Yeah our back four were appalling. You have to wonder if that was partly due to the same lack of confidence in the formation that we were all expressing in the Notts County bar.

Minteh will always be better than Mitoma at tracking. He has the pace & energy and he wants to do it.
 


B

Balders

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2013
431
Guinness Boy said:
Yeah our back four were appalling. You have to wonder if that was partly due to the same lack of confidence in the formation that we were all expressing in the Notts County bar.

Minteh will always be better than Mitoma at tracking. He has the pace & energy and he wants to do it.
Click to expand...
I'd like to think that Professional Footballers don't suffer from the same lack of confidence expressed by armchair pundits!
 








macbeth

macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
4,414
six feet beneath the moon
zefarelly said:
Dunk got skinned a few times as well. There really is nothing positive to take from yesterday.
Click to expand...
tragically i really think dunky is symbolic of the whole issue. he just isn’t at the level required anymore. he can still play those defence-splitting passes but defensively he just can’t do it anymore.
 




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