What a ridiculous false equivalence. I expect a lot more from you.
Just because I don’t sympathise with him, doesn’t mean that I think the behaviour is not abhorrent, it is.
Last edited:
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[Albion] Paul Winstanley: how to make friends and influence people
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
Just because I don’t sympathise with him, doesn’t mean that I think the behaviour is not abhorrent, it is.
Greg Bobkin
Silver Seagull
- May 22, 2012
- 16,527
OK, let me put it another way: 'let's think it's OK for people to be abused on social media for something that isn't to do with them'. Let me ask again: why should they get the abuse?
There's no 'faux outrage' here. I just don't agree with the fact you think it is OK for someone's wife and family to be abused by people who could (if they REALLY wanted to) go after the actual target of their anger/hatred/difference of opinion. It's wrong, hence me asking you why you think they should get the abuse?
'Have you ever had someone knock at your door and make a genuine threat to you and your family, I’d say that’s a different order of nastiness and fear completely.'
Yes. You?
FFS.
I don’t think you’re going to get this. But I’ll try one more time.
I DON’T THINK THEY SHOULD BE GETTING THE ABUSE!
Let’s look at this logically.
Premise 1: I have no sympathy for PW’s situation.
Premise 2: I think PW & family deserve the abuse they are getting.
Premise 2 does not automatically follow on from premise 1. In fact I think the opposite to premise 2.
Let’s break down the meaning of sympathy for you:
“feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune”
So, I have no feelings of pity or sorrow for PW because I believe that this sort of fan behaviour should be expected when you take up a job at a football club like Chelsea.
But that does not mean that I think he deserves having that said to him or his family. I don’t. I think it’s horrible and wrong. It’s just not going to force an emotional response (sympathy) from me.
You have stated as a ‘fact’ that:
‘I think it is OK for someone's wife and family to be abused’. Hence my point about NSC at it’s worst, this is not a fact at all, it is totally false. You have just conflated a lack of an emotional response to a particular circumstance to a viewpoint that I don’t have.
Last edited:
Maybe you give that impression when you say you won't "waste sympathy" (I guess you have very finite amounts) on PW with family and then spend time and energy writing multiple posts explaining 1) why he should expect to be abused (he works for another club) and 2) why he should be immune to it (he can buy a new car).
Clearly you haven't had many anonymous death threats sent to you or your family because otherwise you (or people who function normally) would be able to understand how this other human (PW) and his family feels about it. When I ran a rave in 2014 at what I thought was an abandoned building (but was in reality just taken over by a kid's theatre...) I received hundreds of death threats on phone, in the mail and on social media. It took weeks for me before I felt safe walking around the city again. It took months before I dared to have headphones when walking home from pubs and so. No amount of money or cars would have changed that uncanny feeling of getting a hundred threats, going to the pub and constantly be aware if someone recognise you and maybe don't like you and then make sure you have no one following you when going home etc.
Now that was me. If my mother or very hypothetical wife/kids were to receive those threats instead, I'd be destroyed knowing my family is going to spend the days looking over their shoulders because someone doesn't like me and has taken the time to find and contact my relatives, meaning they don't show a lot of boundaries.
Getting your family threatened isn't ok even if you chose to be employed by Chelsea FC. Its not even "to be expected". Its unacceptable and if you want to die on a hill fighting that opinion, feel free. Print the conversation and give it to your family and friends and see if they think you're as f***ing reasonable as you think you are.
You make a good point about death threats, I have never had them on social media so that is obviously not going to warrant an immediate emotional response in me.
Instead I had a rational one. This was that if you take up a role at ‘Chelsea’ (not just another club BTW, he’d not get this at Palace), there are risks associated with it. Whilst he and his family CLEARLY do not deserve the abuse, my finite amount of sympathy is not extending to his plight today, there are more important things. In terms of ‘immunity’, you find that in some jobs, your are paid very well because of things like the high profile, the risk of getting the sack or the vulnerability to toxic social media posts. My sympathy is better saved for those who are abused on social media and aren’t being compensated from having a stressful job that is highly vulnerable to social media abuse.
But please, stop attributing the false narrative that I think the abuse it ok. Again, you are mistakenly assuming this because the issue has not driven me to the emotional response of sympathy. You could not be more wrong if you think I believe it’s ok. My position is the opposite, no matter how many posters attribute my lack of sorrow for his situation to the false fact that I think it’s ok.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 2,021
He doesn't say he's OK with it. He said he doesn't have sympathy for PW. And he goes on to say that he thinks it's abhorrent behaviour by Chelsea fans.
I think a few people here are either misinterpreting what he said or adding things Hugo didn't say.
I think people should maybe sit down have deep breath and a cup of tea, and not let this one escalate into something that its not.
Last edited:
And people who have sympathy for people who gets their families abused and threatened will react negatively to those saying "meh, he could always buy a new car to compensate". It can't be a massive surprise people don't react well to it.
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
Winstanley deserves all sort of abuse from us for all sorts of reasons but his family members don't.
I’m not questioning your sympathy or whether you agree with his treatment. My point is, you said he chose this. This is an equivalent in my opinion, and if it isn’t it’s definitely heading in that direction.
I’ve made my point. I will leave this here. Enjoy the game.
No.
Through the question, you implicitly implied I thought ‘women asked for it’ in certain situations which was a thoroughly wretched thing to do.
Anyway, enjoy the game too. I won’t admonish you anymore for your inappropriate analogy.
Greg Bobkin
Silver Seagull
- May 22, 2012
- 16,527
I don't wish to get all pedantic about it, but that's not what was said. 'I don’t wish to sound heartless but I have no sympathy' is the exact quote, in relation to a post about a person's family being hounded online.
And where, in the rest of that initial post, ('PW’s salary level is designed to compensate the fact that a sizable minority of Chelsea fans are a bunch of utter c***s. He can buy his family some holidays and new cars to compensate.
And in reference to that tweet. No. They are not better than that')
is there any direct reference to it being 'abhorrent behaviour by Chelsea fans'. I get there's no 'sympathy' for PW from HR. But that wasn't at all clear from the initial post, especially when the interpretation is that buying stuff for his family will 'compensate' for anything suffered by the words from these berks.
But sure, I'll take your patronising advice and bow out, having just had a coffee and now getting back to actual work.
Greg Bobkin
Silver Seagull
- May 22, 2012
- 16,527
Sure, OK.
Thanks for the explanation of sorrow and sorry for interpreting your initial non-specific post in the wrong way.
I'm out.
That’s fine. No problem, I could have made it clearer specifying that of course, I have sympathy for his family.
Last edited:
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 2,021
Nice one
AZ Gull
@SeagullsAcademy @seagullsacademy.bsky.social
His son being, of course, former Albion scholar Joe Winstanley.
cjd
Well-known member
I would like to if possible, but I have no idea how to do that. Are you willing to give us a clue..?ask Paul Watson what he thinks of Winstanley
Incidentally I think Winstanley is awful....but not nearly as awful as Guiness Boy.
Reads very much like somebody without much money being jealous of somebody who has lots, who thinks that in some way lots of money would solve all their problems.
Which it won't.
Stupid comment like your Trump ones.