[Football] The best thing about the FA Cup on Saturday....

Nobby Cybergoat said:

I can't agree. The system was implemented in the PL in 2019. It isn't going to improve.

Click to expand...

Beanstalk said:

Sure, it would've caused a delay, and would've been disappointing when it was ruled out, but it would also have been fair, because that goal was offside and the laws of the game are pretty clear.

Look, I completely get all the frustration with VAR, it's implementation has been, to put it kindly, dogshit. I just don't want to see a game where everyone can see on a replay that a goal has unfairly counted (or a penalty has been incorrectly given) and that has decided the score line. Multiple examples of that this weekend; Leeds should've conceded a blatant penalty at 0-0 but no VAR to serve justice and now Harrogate are out of the cup. Until referee's get markedly better, then VAR is the best deliverer of fairness we have.

Click to expand...

Simster said:

If the offside law was clarified (such that offside was only measured from the foot or head) then it ought to only take a few seconds to give a result.

Click to expand...

Ooh it’s a corner said:

And I totally get that Beanstalk and accept you’re probably correct BUT!!!
I am more interested in those people who have actually paid to get to and attend a live game - less so those of us watching on TV/dodgy streams etc who can watch endless slow motion replays.
When I’m at a game I want to be able to celebrate a goal within a second of it going in which, without VAR, I normally can

Click to expand...

Audax said:

Absolutely. I'd argue it should be the foot. And I'd even go a step (*ahem) further and say base it on the grounded foot (if both grounded, the one closest to the goal, if neither grounded the estimated position of the foot closest to goal). Where possible, using a grounded foot gives you an indisputable location to draw your lines.

For me it's ridiculous that attackers get called for being offside because they are leaning towards goal while making their run, while a defender is leaning away from goal trying to trigger an offside trap. IMO a situation like that the attacker should get the benefit; the defender has taken a risk, they should pay the price for getting it slightly wrong. They attacker has timed their run perfectly, beaten the trap, and should get the benefit of that. I couldn't give a toss if their head was 2cm offside because they were leaning into their run.

Use the grounded foot/feet, simplify the law. (IMO, using grounded feet would make it easier for the lino as well!)

Click to expand...

Guinness Boy said:

As I've said numerous times there have been three major law changes that have improved football beyond any real measure:

1) Three points for a win
2) Backpass rule
3) Level = ONSIDE

Without those changes we simply wouldn't have the Premier League and TV money we still have now. We'd still have 8000 odd people rattling round a stadium watching Mike Bailey's Bores pass back and offside trap their way to half the available points.

VAR has removed 3) at a stroke. For that reason alone it's a travesty and should get in the bin. There are lots of other reasons too though,,,,,

Click to expand...

Washie said:

It hasn't, being level is still onside. The body part that is not level is offside, was that when I ran the line years ago.

Click to expand...

Guinness Boy said:

As I've said numerous times there have been three major law changes that have improved football beyond any real measure:

1) Three points for a win
2) Backpass rule
3) Level = ONSIDE

Without those changes we simply wouldn't have the Premier League and TV money we still have now. We'd still have 8000 odd people rattling round a stadium watching Mike Bailey's Bores pass back and offside trap their way to half the available points.

VAR has removed 3) at a stroke. For that reason alone it's a travesty and should get in the bin. There are lots of other reasons too though,,,,,

Click to expand...

Simster said:

Three points was implemented before the backpass rule as a way of promoting attacking football but I actually don't think it's necessary anymore because the backpass rule changed everything.

Your third point is utter nonsense. VAR hasn't changed that at all - level has always been onside. I just want offside to be flagged for offside (and yes, a cm or two does matter), I want onside to be waved play on, and the rules need to be clarified to make that a quick decision.

People seem to have short memories. They forget the number of times we used to see offsides wrongly flagged, often in very dangerous attacking situations. The flag would go up, TV would analyse it to show it was a poor decision and sometimes barely pass comment before the game carried on. It got beyond a joke.

Click to expand...

Guinness Boy said:

As per post #48 Premier League games never, ever have the lines drawn exactly on top of each other whereas in the Championship (and for Solly's goal) the lino will have to make a level decision by eye. VAR fundamentally changes HOW it is judged, and in which games.

I suspect where we're actually at is that you think 1cm does make a difference and I think that's ridiculous.

Click to expand...

Guinness Boy said:

In fact, anyone in favour of VAR might want to watch the video in post #1 in this thread:

[Albion] - Classic Match - Brighton 5 - Norwich 0

This was very early in the season but at this point I knew we were going up.

www.northstandchat.com

One of our all time classic Amex matches and not really that long ago. Now reimagine it with VAR.

1) The opening goal may well not have counted. The referee may have chosen to blow for a foul on the keeper to be safe and then consult VAR. But even if not there would have been a time consuming review and a risk of the goal being chalked off.

2) Another review for the Bruno "handball". Likely not given at the moment but in earlier iterations of the VAR / handball rule changes it would have been. Again a lengthy review process.

3) Potentially both players sent off for the mutual headbutt. Certainly a long review

4) Is there a foul in the build up to Knocky's 5th goal? Again would have been reviewed

That's two goals that wouldn't have been celebrated properly, probably at least five minutes added on in addition, potentially a 10v10 game and potentially a VAR given penalty depending on what season of VAR we're talking about.

Is anyone really prepared to argue that result was in any way unjust?

Click to expand...

Simster said:

I struggle to believe that the technology isn't there to enable us to draw lines properly. If it isn't, then I agree with you that VAR has no place getting involved in such decisions. But if it is, then it should be implemented and the offside law should be clarified. In fact, the offside law should be clarified anyway.

Ultimately, a law is a law - you can't choose not to implement a law just because the margin isn't clear cut enough even though the evidence is conclusive one way or the other.

Click to expand...

Guinness Boy said:

The lines are never made level. Can you tell me one game where a decision has placed both lines exactly on top of each other and then given onside?

Click to expand...

How offsides are determined by VAR

See how the Video Assistant Referee uses Hawk-Eye to make offside decisions

www.premierleague.com

Audax said:

It actually is possible for them to be drawn on top of each other. It is just extremely rare. Pretty sure I've seen it exactly once, but I can't remember the match as it was a while ago and my memory is very good at discarding things it doesn't need to retain. They even changed the process to use thicker lines, and declared that *any* line overlap meant onside, as a nod towards the imprecision of the current technology. It is only a nod, though, and IMO hasn't gone far enough (largely because they still insist on trying to draw lines from elevated body parts knowing full well the tech isn't good enough to do it precisely).

Edit: in fact, a 1 minute Google search came up with this:

How offsides are determined by VAR

See how the Video Assistant Referee uses Hawk-Eye to make offside decisions

www.premierleague.com

Click to expand...

Uh_huh_him said:

Of course it's possible,. just very unlikely.
The point being made was that when the law was brought in, it allowed a margin of error to the linesman when it was too close to call.
VAR has removed that advantage to the attacking team as level now needs to be a dead-heat between two players, which is incredibly rare.
Even with replays, freezeframe technology, we would previously have accepted that most marginal offsides were in fact "level", prior to VAR's introduction.

The game need to decide what we actually want offside to actually mean,.
It has changed from an approximate decision, to an absolute one.

Are we happy with that or not?

Click to expand...

Audax said:

If you read one of my previous posts in this thread, you'll know my answer to that question already .

Click to expand...

Uh_huh_him said:

Of course it's possible,. just very unlikely.
The point being made was that when the law was brought in, it allowed a margin of error to the linesman when it was too close to call.
VAR has removed that advantage to the attacking team as level now needs to be a dead-heat between two players, which is incredibly rare.
Even with replays, freezeframe technology, we would previously have accepted that most marginal offsides were in fact "level", prior to VAR's introduction.

The game need to decide what we actually want offside to actually mean,.
It has changed from an approximate decision, to an absolute one.

Are we happy with that or not?

Click to expand...

Bodian said:

VAR doesn't check whether free-kicks are taken 15 yards nearer the goal than the offence though....

Click to expand...