[Albion] Do you think that you are becoming a little “entitled” re the Albion?

sussex_guy2k2 · Sunday at 6:36 PM

Balders said:
Correct - you can't judge if you are not privy to TB's expectations are, but the point is, like very successful business people, he won't knee jerk after a short run (currently) and I suspect he is happy with our current process.

The problem is our results haven't been linear - if we had beaten the teams we are expected to beat and lost to the teams we were expecting to lose to, then if we are in exactly the same position as at now, then it's not a problem. Let's not forget this is our 2nd best points total at this stage of the season. Not many things in life are linear, but I'm assuming the knee jerkers sense/feel that our drop off in form (all teams will have this, blimey Fulham couldn't beat Southampton today) will also be linear downwards - it's highly unlikely it will be.

Regarding the £200m investment, in the big scheme of things, this isn't a huge investment and was made at a time which was advantageous for TB and the Club, in the midst of PSR having a negative impact on most Premier League Clubs, many who had to sell to remain compliant. So that window was not normal when comparing to other windows, if PSR wasn't constraining other teams, our investment would probably appeared "middle of the road".

A £200m investment does not equal immediate results in football - just look how much Chelsea have invested in previous seasons (£200m for two PL ready CB's!) and they were a basket case for quite a while - things are now beginning to click for them and it's taken a lot more than 18 games. And of course, they can attract and pay the wages of players like Cole Palmer - like it or loathe it, we as a Club won't change our wage structure or strategy regardless of what fans might think.

The £200m investment on rough diamonds may indeed work in the future, but equally it may not - it's our model!

I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. I think the problem with this whole thread, and many of the conversations on this very subject recently is that people assume a person can’t have multiple viewpoints and consider all factors.

I’m aware of everything you’ve said, but I’m also aware of the opposing argument, which is that £200m was the highest summer spend in the world and our highest spend ever, and it followed a season where we’d told our most successful manager ever that he wouldn’t get the money to improve the squad as he saw fit to push us again to European level. Instead we entrusted this spend to a 31 year old with limited experience, and gave him players that seemingly barely improved our first 11.

There are often two sides to a coin, or multiple arguments, and people shouldn’t be vilified for expecting more from us given what I’ve said above, irrespective of the “remember where we’ve come from” brigade who think we should rejoice in everything the club does without reflection or analysis, taking everything they say at face value.

For me personally, as I’ve said multiple times, I believe we’re moving in the right direction, but I’m yet to have the same faith in the current manager that I’ve had in the previous two. I think he’s lacking tactically based on the games I’ve been to, and he doesn’t seem to inspire confidence in the team. So it’s not so much about entitlement, it’s that I’m yet to be convinced that the current manager is the guy that should be in charge of the players we’ve bought with this £200m spend, nor am I sure he’s the guy to develop the talents we’ve invested so heavily in.

And I don’t think that’s an especially controversial take considering how many of our home games have gone this season, but many would claim that makes me entitled because I believe a better manager would’ve achieved more with the squad we now have, even though it’s imbalanced.

Littlemo · Sunday at 6:40 PM

Tbh I find people calling out posters as entitled more annoying than some of the negative comments.

I am not that upset at where we are or how we are doing. It’s Hürzeler’s first season in England, we have an inexperienced squad overall who all need to develop in their own way. I don’t really expect that much and I think there’s a good chance we get it together and improve.

That said, I don’t think we’ve played a single game well for the whole match. We started with good results but they’ve fallen off a bit and we look like we are getting worse rather than better. We don’t have a clear style of play and what’s being played is largely not that great.

I think all of this means fans are allowed to criticise things, and that doesn’t mean they disagree or hate everything with the club, just that right now, things aren’t working and the football is poor to watch.

The comments about how we have an amazing squad and should be getting Top half/Europe etc are more disrespectful and annoying. The teams around us are decent, they all have great squads as well and we should be recognising that, and our squad is unproven and currently not looking very talented or special, it only puts more expectation on us by coming out with that stuff.

Balders · Sunday at 6:51 PM

sussex_guy2k2 said:
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. I think the problem with this whole thread, and many of the conversations on this very subject recently is that people assume a person can’t have multiple viewpoints and consider all factors.

I’m aware of everything you’ve said, but I’m also aware of the opposing argument, which is that £200m was the highest summer spend in the world and our highest spend ever, and it followed a season where we’d told our most successful manager ever that he wouldn’t get the money to improve the squad as he saw fit to push us again to European level. Instead we entrusted this spend to a 31 year old with limited experience, and gave him players that seemingly barely improved our first 11.

There are often two sides to a coin, or multiple arguments, and people shouldn’t be vilified for expecting more from us given what I’ve said above, irrespective of the “remember where we’ve come from” brigade who think we should rejoice in everything the club does without reflection or analysis, taking everything they say at face value.

For me personally, as I’ve said multiple times, I believe we’re moving in the right direction, but I’m yet to have the same faith in the current manager that I’ve had in the previous two. I think he’s lacking tactically based on the games I’ve been to, and he doesn’t seem to inspire confidence in the team. So it’s not so much about entitlement, it’s that I’m yet to be convinced that the current manager is the guy that should be in charge of the players we’ve bought with this £200m spend, nor am I sure he’s the guy to develop the talents we’ve invested so heavily in.

And I don’t think that’s an especially controversial take considering how many of our home games have gone this season, but many would claim that makes me entitled because I believe a better manager would’ve achieved more with the squad we now have, even though it’s imbalanced.

I think the overall problem here is that if you support Brighton, you have to support the model - nobody is bigger than the model or TB and nobody can say with a straight face that the model hasn't been successful, while also that the model is consistently being adjusted, to meet our revised expectations and TB/PB are in control of that, nobody else.

RDZ had a different strategy in respect of player recruitment, much like some fans, it's not a secret that he wanted to bring in "his" players - that's not our model and that's why RDZ left.

Again re the £200m spend - clubs in Europe just don't have the money and there was the issue of PSR - an opportunity for TB, it's as simple as that.

It's a bizare EPL this year - Liverpool aside, anyone seems to be able to beat anybody else on any given day, it's not a specific Brighton problem. Sides have been on runs of poor form (M City, Villa etc) sides are not beating teams they should, Fulham today (Just like us!)

Man Utd with lots of money invested and arguably a better squad than ours, languishing below us, and we've beat them already this season. Was it all down to ETH, early signs are that isn't clear cut. What about Ange - just been battered at home, languishing below us, and we've beat them this season, but history doesn't seem to matter for them or their fans...... There are others......

It's a funny old world....

sussex_guy2k2 · Sunday at 6:58 PM

Balders said:
I think the overall problem here is that if you support Brighton, you have to support the model - nobody is bigger than the model or TB and nobody can say with a straight face that the model hasn't been successful, while also that the model is consistently being adjusted, to meet our revised expectations and TB/PB are in control of that, nobody else.

RDZ had a different strategy in respect of player recruitment, much like some fans, it's not a secret that he wanted to bring in "his" players - that's not our model and that's why RDZ left.

Again re the £200m spend - clubs in Europe just don't have the money and there was the issue of PSR - an opportunity for TB, it's as simple as that.

It's a bizare EPL this year - Liverpool aside, anyone seems to be able to beat anybody else on any given day, it's not a specific Brighton problem. Sides have been on runs of poor form (M City, Villa etc) sides are not beating teams they should, Fulham today (Just like us!)

Man Utd with lots of money invested and arguably a better squad than ours, languishing below us, and we've beat them already this season. Was it all down to ETH, early signs are that isn't clear cut. What about Ange - just been battered at home, languishing below us, and we've beat them this season, but history doesn't seem to matter for them or their fans...... There are others......

It's a funny old world....

With all due respect, you don’t have to support the model to support the club. Many of us supported the club under the previous regime where we nearly went out of the football league - we still supported the club despite the model and “process” being different.

But the model isn’t really being discussed. It’s whether we are entitled.

And I get all of your points - you’re regurgitating the club line in an almost perfect imitation of Naylor. I just don’t agree with many of them.

But I don’t think there should be this narrative, as we seem to have on here, that people aren’t allowed differing opinions or emotions. Football is emotive - it’s supposed to drive great emotional responses from us when supporting our clubs. And because of human biology, we all have different emotional responses to our clubs’ results and processes, and develop different opinions.

But being frustrated about where we are and how our results have been is as acceptable as looking at it with a shiny light.

Justice · Sunday at 7:05 PM

Balders said:
I think the overall problem here is that if you support Brighton, you have to support the model - nobody is bigger than the model or TB and nobody can say with a straight face that the model hasn't been successful, while also that the model is consistently being adjusted, to meet our revised expectations and TB/PB are in control of that, nobody else.

RDZ had a different strategy in respect of player recruitment, much like some fans, it's not a secret that he wanted to bring in "his" players - that's not our model and that's why RDZ left.

Again re the £200m spend - clubs in Europe just don't have the money and there was the issue of PSR - an opportunity for TB, it's as simple as that.

It's a bizare EPL this year - Liverpool aside, anyone seems to be able to beat anybody else on any given day, it's not a specific Brighton problem. Sides have been on runs of poor form (M City, Villa etc) sides are not beating teams they should, Fulham today (Just like us!)

Man Utd with lots of money invested and arguably a better squad than ours, languishing below us, and we've beat them already this season. Was it all down to ETH, early signs are that isn't clear cut. What about Ange - just been battered at home, languishing below us, and we've beat them this season, but history doesn't seem to matter for them or their fans...... There are others......

It's a funny old world....

Do Manure have an arguably better squad?

Balders · Sunday at 7:25 PM

Justice said:
Do Manure have an arguably better squad?

Based purely on subjective values (transfermarket) Man Utd valued at £795m against BHA valued at £606m.
Again whether squads are better or worse, is also subjective.
Purely on Squad Values, we should be 8th, Man Utd (and Spurs) are underperforming and sides like Notts Forest, Muff and Fulham are seriously over performing.

tigertim68 · Sunday at 7:47 PM

I cant remember a season when I have come away so disappointed after so many games , this season had so many opportunities to be in the top 4 ,we have thrown every chance away , there is not one match I go to now expecting a good result now and we have thrown away our opportunity to qualify for Europe, I can’t see another season where a lot of the top teams have been so average

Silverhatch · Sunday at 7:58 PM

Justice said:
Do Manure have an arguably better squad?

Nope

One Teddy Maybank · Sunday at 7:59 PM

I try not to be, but voted ‘a little’, I remain pleased to be in the PL, but always want to progress, so naturally feel frustrated by some of the draws against #teamslike Wolves, Leicester, especially from winning positions….

Weststander · Sunday at 8:03 PM

tigertim68 said:
I cant remember a season when I have come away so disappointed after so many games , this season had so many opportunities to be in the top 4 ,we have thrown every chance away , there is not one match I go to now expecting a good result now and we have thrown away our opportunity to qualify for Europe, I can’t see another season where a lot of the top teams have been so average

The Potter seasons until it clicked at the end? Pretty build up play, failure to tuck away chances, often robbed at the Amex, a stony silence on the buses post match.

Javeaseagull · Sunday at 8:13 PM

I consciously try not to be “entitled” but found myself saying to the Spurs son-in-law today that we had a better squad than them. He obviously didn’t agree but I pointed out the quality of our subs that came on yesterday compared to the Spurs bench today. He came back with “What was your result?” I threw him out after that.

BadFish · Sunday at 8:22 PM

I don't know if it's entitlement (this seems to be one of tbose somewhat meaningless tropes that gets wheeled out in online discussion). It seems to be more about where people expect us to finish. For many Europe is the minimum standard for them and it seems if this won't be met then they will call for the managers head.

For me this misrepresents where we and the rest of the league sit. We consistently sell our best players and are in an almost constant flux of rebuilding. This means we are going to be inconsistent while we do so. This season is certainly a rebuilding one.

Add to this the fact that the other teams in this league are really good and it shows me that finishing top 6 is really f***ing hard.

Despite our poor run of for we are still in with a good shout of making Europe and will likely finish midtable/top half. In a rebuilding phase, this is more than acceptable.

Uh_huh_him · Sunday at 8:24 PM

Yeah a little bit.
But it's completely natural.
Tony's management of the club means that we don't have to be humble and be thankful for just being able to play in the top tier.

The thing that is hard to adjust to, this season, is it appears the young talent we've signed for development is our manager.

I trust the club.
But it was always going to be a bumpy ride. We just got a bit carried away with a good (but lucky) start.

portlock seagull · Sunday at 8:32 PM

BadFish said:
I don't know if it's entitlement (this seems to be one of tbose somewhat meaningless tropes that gets wheeled out in online discussion). It seems to be more about where people expect us to finish. For many Europe is the minimum standard for them and it seems if this won't be met then they will call for the managers head.

For me this misrepresents where we and the rest of the league sit. We consistently sell our best players and are in an almost constant flux of rebuilding. This means we are going to be inconsistent while we do so. This season is certainly a rebuilding one.

Add to this the fact that the other teams in this league are really good and it shows me that finishing top 6 is really f***ing hard.

Despite our poor run of for we are still in with a good shout of making Europe and will likely finish midtable/top half. In a rebuilding phase, this is more than acceptable.

Stop with the making Europe shout assertions, people need to stop being delusional. Its tiny margins to take the Conference spot even if we were in with a chance but we most certainly aren’t nor should expect. Mid table is more than good enough considered, let’s just avoid a relegation scrap and push on from there next season.

sparkie · Sunday at 8:37 PM

Not 'entitled' - more that I enjoy the good times and dare to dream.

BadFish · Sunday at 8:42 PM

portlock seagull said:
Stop with the making Europe shout assertions, people need to stop being delusional. Its tiny margins to take the Conference spot even if we were in with a chance but we most certainly aren’t nor should expect. Mid table is more than good enough considered, let’s just avoid a relegation scrap and push on from there next season.

I don't expect is to make Europe at all. But we are still in with a shout. As you say small margins.

Not sure how my post read but it was intended to be written than mid table is more than good enough, if that is where we end up.

Iggle Piggle · Sunday at 8:52 PM

I enjoyed yesterday in it's own way. A cracking day out in Hackney Wick, catching up with lots of old friends only slightly ruined by a crap game of football, especially the first half, with a crap atmosphere to top it off. It reminded me it was like that every week but just in lot worse places.against a lot shitter teams.

I hate the word entitled. It used as a stick to beat people with but, yes, my expectations are higher and I am frustrated our players seem to be able to do what they like rather than act like a well coached team. If that's entitled, I'm guilty.

Javeaseagull · Sunday at 8:53 PM

I dearly want to win the FA Cup. I don’t think that is entitled, it is just a dream. I also think that this is the best time I have ever had as a Brighton supporter. I am 77.

BadFish · Sunday at 9:00 PM

Javeaseagull said:
I dearly want to win the FA Cup. I don’t think that is entitled, it is just a dream. I also think that this is the best time I have ever had as a Brighton supporter. I am 77.

This, for me it is about trying to enjoy these good times. We have a team full of exciting young talent, play mostly exciting attacking football and sit in the top half of the toughest league in the world.

Why people choose to be negative about this and attack our young payers (the Gruda, thread is just insane) is beyond me.

We have never had it so good and for those that can't enjoy it, I despair.

Still as long as they are happy.

Lenny Rider · Sunday at 9:01 PM

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
I just want us not to sell ourselves short on the pitch. Not a big ask shirley?

Exactly this.

Its almost the footballing schizophrenia that gets me the most, superb at times, at Liverpool the first 45 minutes was probably the best I’ve ever seen us play, up against the capitulations against Wolves and Leicester, then Palace.

In a perverse way the £198 million spend and a clear statement of intent re Europe almost gave us all indirectly a sense of entitlement.

On a positive note the way other results seem to go, week in week out, we’ve got the squad and points left to play for to still make that all important top 7

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