[Albion] The Albion model... slight concern

Kosh · Dec 13, 2024

Like I said, a slight concern and ill feeling... There's really no need to get so bent out of shape about it.

This is a forum for debate, and I'm reassured to see so many replies telling me all is well and indeed by comparison to so many other clubs it's difficult to argue otherwise.

Hopefully my trust in the process will be re-established by our coach getting the best/utmost out of the brilliant players he has at his disposal.

Flounce · Dec 13, 2024

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
Anyone who blindly Trusts The Process is in for a rude awakening sure as eggs is eggs. Kind of crap Potter used to come out with, and a bit worrying that new guy is coming out with it too

Anyone who can moan about how far we’ve come and where we SEEM to be going over the last few years is probably following the wrong club :wink:

OR is just a miserable sod :lolol:

Possibly a Scot? :wink:

Eeyore · Dec 13, 2024

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
Somebody on here recently likened our business model to a stud farm (without the horse sex obviously). There's a high degree of churn, buying and selling hand over fist, but seemingly no real focus on building and tweaking the first team into a stable cohesive unit. Maybe it's the modern game, but the Albion just seem to be a set of ever-revolving doors. It's undoubtedly a great business model if you're in the business of buying and selling. As a football model? Maybe not so much

It's true, but I think a Premier League club such as Albion has little choice given that they would be taking a bigger financial risk by paying the wages needed to keep certain players in the hope of quickly becoming one of the elite. The only way Albion can be sustainable is through this model. Not only that, if a player wants to go to an elite club then we can't really stand in their way.

I'd say the ceiling is top ten but no further. In the words of the wise one 'it is what it is'

Tom Hark Preston Park · Dec 13, 2024

Flounce said:
Anyone who can moan about how far we’ve come and where we SEEM to be going over the last few years is probably following the wrong club

OR is just a miserable sod

Possibly a Scot?

Racialist! :angry:

jcdenton08 · Dec 13, 2024

Would you have posted this if we’d won the last couple of games, or moreover if we beat Palace on Sunday 5-0, would you have posted this on Monday?

I understand the disappointment of the last couple of games, particularly against Leicester, but after a few disappointing results it’s very easy to start looking at things to be worried about. Similarly it’s easy to get carried away and believe we do everything perfectly when we are beating Arsenal, Manchester United, Manchester City, Spurs et al.

Neither are true and we’ll know our true level, and that of our star players, same as everyone else in every league in the world, come the end of the season.

The future is very, very bright with the young and talented squad we have available. We’re a top ten side developing the next stars we need to sell to be financially independent - we are brilliantly run and I trust Tony, Paul and the management more than I trust any other “business”.

We have a level, we all know this. And our level will be reflected in our solid league finish in May.

Kosh · Dec 13, 2024

Commander said:
If Igor hadn't have made a mistake in the 92nd minute on Sunday this thread wouldn't have appeared. It's just knee-jerk nonsense from the "I MUST HAVE SUCCESS NOW" brigade as usual.

That's utter horseshit btw, but carry on with your agenda. Show me one post in any other thread where I've banged on about entitled success and demanding we win everything or indeed anything... It'll take you a while.

This thread is not about results on the pitch, moreover it's about maximising the success of our existing model... sure, one critique I have, and I don't think it's too unfair, is that Fabian doesn't seem as invested in working hard to bring players back into form... he's a group dynamic type of guy, as such certain individuals will get left behind... Julio being a case in point.

It's also interesting that no one is even a mite concerned that he or we are not getting/seeing the best out of our BIG money signings from this summer... that's where my concern lies, two years or so down the line... It's down to Fabian to improve these players, where is the evidence that any of them are showing incremental improvements? Weiffer has looked okay recently, but I'd look okay against the recent opposition.

Flounce · Dec 13, 2024

Kosh said:
That's utter horseshit btw, but carry on with your agenda. Show me one post in any other thread where I've banged on about entitled success and demanding we win everything or indeed anything... It'll take you a while.

This thread is not about results on the pitch, moreover it's about maximising the success of our existing model... sure, one critique I have, and I don't think it's too unfair, is that Fabian doesn't seem as invested in working hard to bring players back into form... he's a group dynamic type of guy, as such certain individuals will get left behind... Julio being a case in point.

I think it’s THPP taking the brickbats on this thread now, not you :smile:

Commander · Dec 13, 2024

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
How about Potter's two previous seasons where we were largely dogshit?

I really do find it utterly incredible that you still cannot understand that taking a squad that was built and trained to play Chris Hughton style backs-to-the-wall football and built around players like Shane Duffy and Glenn Murray and transforming it into a squad that plays a completely different style of possession based football while keeping it competitive in the league and not getting relegated is an incredibly big ask. Or that it is always going to take 1-2 seasons to complete the project. There really are not many coaches in the country that could have done that, and come out the other end with an attacking, exciting team that were ready to challenge for Europe.

It's astonishing that you can't understand it, but we've been here many times before and you are never going to change your mind. Fortunately, the guy we have in charge is a bit more switched on.

Dibdab · Dec 13, 2024

Kosh said:
I've was at pains to refrain from talking results, as I wasn't intending to appear reactionary off the back of two or three bland, insipid performances with points thrown away at ease... ahem... lol.

Yes it would, as I've had this feeling from the summer really and the continuing dip in terms of two brilliant young players should be a concern to any supporter really.

I dont see Encisco as a dip more an inability to develop into a team player. If you take away 2 or 3 wonder strikes and a decent performance at Wolves away has he ever really looked like someone that will fit into a side built around team ethics? You listed Adingra and lets be honest he has never been consistent for us. So that leaves Fergie, have you never heard of Viktor Gykores?

Dibdab · Dec 13, 2024

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
How about Potter's two previous seasons where we were largely dogshit? There's many a chairman who wouldn't have indulged that slow learner with a third season

We may have been dogshit but it was good enough to stay up and at the same time saw some of our best ever players develop into what they became.

Dibdab · Dec 13, 2024

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
Like I say, I'm not disputing the business model

But as well as the business its led to our best ever football so I dont understand how you can criticize?

Commander · Dec 13, 2024

Kosh said:
That's utter horseshit btw, but carry on with your agenda. Show me one post in any other thread where I've banged on about entitled success and demanding we win everything or indeed anything... It'll take you a while.

This thread is not about results on the pitch, moreover it's about maximising the success of our existing model... sure, one critique I have, and I don't think it's too unfair, is that Fabian doesn't seem as invested in working hard to bring players back into form... he's a group dynamic type of guy, as such certain individuals will get left behind... Julio being a case in point.

Yeah to be fair as I posted it I thought that was probably a bit harsh- that part wasn't really aimed at you, but I apologise if it came across like that.

You do raise some valid concerns, but not every young player is going to work out for us. We can't win on everything, and the model we have is by far the best model any club who isn't owned by a petro-state has. So I don't think we need to be too concerned about changing it.

jcdenton08 · Dec 13, 2024

Kosh said:
This thread is not about results on the pitch, moreover it's about maximising the success of our existing model...

As I say, it really is, because negative feelings and worry about our “model” is coming off the back of two disappointing results, and had we won those games you’d almost certainly be crowing about our model and the success it is bringing us and this thread wouldn’t exist.

I don’t blame you, we’re all human, but May is when we’ll have a better idea about this current crop of first team players, and several years until we fully know about their potential and that of the squad.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Dec 13, 2024

Commander said:
I really do find it utterly incredible that you still cannot understand that taking a squad that was built and trained to play Chris Hughton style backs-to-the-wall football and built around players like Shane Duffy and Glenn Murray and transforming it into a squad that plays a completely different style of possession based football while keeping it competitive in the league and not getting relegated is an incredibly big ask. Or that it is always going to take 1-2 seasons to complete the project. There really are not many coaches in the country that could have done that, and come out the other end with an attacking, exciting team that were ready to challenge for Europe.

It's astonishing that you can't understand it, but we've been here many times before and you are never going to change your mind. Fortunately, the guy we have in charge is a bit more switched on.

Check out the big brain on @Commander :lolol:

Greg Bobkin · Dec 13, 2024

If we look at the bigger picture (as TB and co no doubt do) where the club is now, is quite probably part-way along a five-year plan (we know he loves them and normally reaches his goal with time to spare) to be a consistent top-10 team in the league. You could argue that they are ahead of schedule, especially given the change in manager (to an inexperienced (in THIS league) guy who is learning about the players and the wider goals of BHAFC) and favourable results (so more high-profile) against 'the big six'.

Finish the season now and everyone would be happy. But the start we had (talk of CL football, etc) means people believe we are furtther along than we are – plus there's SO long to go. We have no right to make Europe, let along the CL this season, or maybe not even next season. But what I believe the club is doing is making gradual improvements to the overall quality in the squad, investing in players for the future (fully aware that not all of them will make it, but then those will get sold at a profit) and increasing the professionalism around the club (I listened to the sports science/head of medical dude on the podcast and it was fascinating) to ensure that they CAN break into the top 10 regularly and have the odd European campaign.

Currently, the club is showing that it can give players a chance, as well as the opportunity to earn a big-money move to a 'big' club. In time, Brighton might become a 'big' club, so the need/desire for those players to leave will diminish.

I'm not 100% anything, let alone 'trust the process'. But the evidence suggests that Bloom and co clearly know what they are doing!

Kosh · Dec 13, 2024

Commander said:
Yeah to be fair as I posted it I thought that was probably a bit harsh- that part wasn't really aimed at you, but I apologise if it came across like that.

You do raise some valid concerns, but not every young player is going to work out for us. We can't win on everything, and the model we have is by far the best model any club who isn't owned by a petro-state has. So I don't think we need to be too concerned about changing it.

Thank you ... I'm with you on the above... Like I say, I'm not basing this on recent results - genuinely so... I am majorly concerned about the outlay this summer and the return we'd see on a Matts for example, though we do need to buy in retainers as it were... I guess I'm as shocked and disappointed that two wonderful young players have fallen so far back, but they are kids and this can happen.

Kosh · Dec 13, 2024

jcdenton08 said:
As I say, it really is, because negative feelings and worry about our “model” is coming off the back of two disappointing results, and had we won those games you’d almost certainly be crowing about our model and the success it is bringing us and this thread wouldn’t exist.

I don’t blame you, we’re all human, but May is when we’ll have a better idea about this current crop of first team players, and several years until we fully know about their potential and that of the squad.

Fair enough, not worth too much stress over... and yes, you're spot on in terms of no one really knowing where the model will be until May-August... time will tell.

Seasider78 · Dec 13, 2024

With the PSR rules, a market that meant opportunities to purchase players that we would usually be in tough competition for and a pile of filthy cash from player sales has meant we have recruited a significant number of high quality players into the club. The issue is not so much the players are going backwards but their options to play and develop this season are now more limited. I expect us to address this in January with some top notch development loans

dazzer6666 · Dec 13, 2024

Kosh said:
That's utter horseshit btw, but carry on with your agenda. Show me one post in any other thread where I've banged on about entitled success and demanding we win everything or indeed anything... It'll take you a while.

This thread is not about results on the pitch, moreover it's about maximising the success of our existing model... sure, one critique I have, and I don't think it's too unfair, is that Fabian doesn't seem as invested in working hard to bring players back into form... he's a group dynamic type of guy, as such certain individuals will get left behind... Julio being a case in point.

It's also interesting that no one is even a mite concerned that he or we are not getting/seeing the best out of our BIG money signings from this summer... that's where my concern lies, two years or so down the line... It's down to Fabian to improve these players, where is the evidence that any of them are showing incremental improvements? Weiffer has looked okay recently, but I'd look okay against the recent opposition.

Most of the big money signings (Gruda, MOR, Ferdi, Minteh) have had injuries. The one that hasn't - Rutter - has been excellent

Kalimantan Gull · Dec 13, 2024

Kosh said:
Like I said, a slight concern and ill feeling... There's really no need to get so bent out of shape about it.

This is a forum for debate, and I'm reassured to see so many replies telling me all is well and indeed by comparison to so many other clubs it's difficult to argue otherwise.

Hopefully my trust in the process will be re-established by our coach getting the best/utmost out of the brilliant players he has at his disposal.

Am I right that your post can be distilled down to 'I'm concerned that not all our players are developing into potential £50m+ sales, and therefore the model is at risk'?

Because if so, that's always been true. None of the following left us for big money : Connolly, Ostigard, Gyokeres, Molumby, Alzate, Clarke, Baluta, Normann, Mlakar, Zeqiri, Tau, Kozlowski, Karbownik, Leonard and loads of others I can't remember.

It doesn't matter though because you only need the odd Caucedo, Cucurella and White, with a few Burn/Maupay/Gilmour type sales sprinkled in, to stay ahead of the curve

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[Albion] The Albion model... slight concern

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