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[News] Words fail me.



Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,729
Faversham
WATFORD zero said:
Obviously I know nothing about this case. However the Jury and the Judge have heard every horrendous detail of this situation. I may not like the result, from the headlines I've seen, but I've generally found the British justice system to be excellent in their judgement having heard and decided on the full facts.
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Spot on.

We have been doing justice for hundreds of years, and doing democracy with a full franchise for around 100. That beats most other nations hollow. Blacks didn't get the vote in the US till the 60s. In the Muslim world women largely don't exist. And 'poofs' are hanged.

And guess what? People who go into laws in the UK are very bright, and have excellent judgement.

Yet some people still seem to think that a fat alcoholic with a shaven head, a house-brick in one hand and a bottle of Stella in the other would be a better judge of what's what.

Give me strength.
 




Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
7,247
happypig said:
It shouldn't be. Justices sentence and it is then up to the relevant authorities (Prison Service, Probation etc) to "make it work".
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On the contrary, Maximum (and minimum sentences) are set by Parliament not the judiciary - they are monitored by the Sentencing Council, linked to the Ministry of Justice (but operate independently) - Justices follow sentencing guidelines provided by the Sentencing Council who monitor how they are being implemented.

The guidelines for judges sentencing (or ‘Justices’ in the Supreme Court) come down from the Sentencing Council who are a non-departmental body - they don’t make it up as they go along and public policy is taken into account.

With less serious crimes, there have been guidelines in the past to impose a non-custodial suspended sentence in response to prison crisis:

The application of sentencing principles during a period when the prison population is very high – statement from the Chairman of the Sentencing Council – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

As I said, it wouldn’t surprise me if the overcrowding of prisons is impacting sentencing.
 
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Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
7,247
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
It isn't. Apart from the directives that were made public recently. And that was about petty offending.
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See my post above.

Judges don’t decide what the sentencing guidelines are, the Sentencing Council does.

This Government launched a major review of sentencing in response to the prison crisis which came out in October - the thrust of which is to ensure there is room in our prisons for dangerous criminals to be incarcerated and alternatives to custodial sentencing are more heavily relied upon.

www.gov.uk

Landmark Sentencing Review launched to end prison crisis

Public safety will be at the heart of an independent review into sentencing, as the government pledges to end the crisis in our prisons.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
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BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,429
The Clamp said:
CPS would likely be trying to strike a balance between a criminal and welfare pathway when considering the sentence here.

Her actions are unlikely those of someone in possession of a sound mind.

A terribly sad and equally horrific case.
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This.

I expect there is a harrowing and incredibly sad story behind this.
 




wellquickwoody

wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
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Aug 10, 2007
13,963
Melbourne
How about convicted murderer being allowed out of jail to receive IVF treatment? Permission granted today in Melbourne. :facepalm:

It is not about woke, or lefties etc etc, or at least it should not be. The killer killed her flatmate in a drug fuelled attack and was sentenced to sixteen years minimum.

Meanwhile the Victorian Premier yesterday backed new legislation making it an offence to incite hatred, serious contempt, revulsion or severe ridicule against another person or group based on their protected attribute”, with a penalty of up to three years’ imprisonment.
 


MJsGhost

MJsGhost

Oooh Matron, I'm an
NSC Patron
Jun 26, 2009
5,046
East
I have a 3 and a half year old girl and this story absolutely breaks my heart.

I hope that poor little girl can now get the life she deserves.

As for the 'mother', I hope she gets the psychiatric help she needs as she is either not right in the head, or a sadistic **** who deserves to rot in hell.
 


BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,429
wellquickwoody said:
How about convicted murderer being allowed out of jail to receive IVF treatment? Permission granted today in Melbourne. :facepalm:

It is not about woke, or lefties etc etc, or at least it should not be. The killer killed her flatmate in a drug fuelled attack and was sentenced to sixteen years minimum.

Meanwhile the Victorian Premier yesterday backed new legislation making it an offence to incite hatred, serious contempt, revulsion or severe ridicule against another person or group based on their protected attribute”, with a penalty of up to three years’ imprisonment.
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I haven't read much about the legislation you are referring to here. I found a link to have a read of it, what are the parts that you are concerned about?

www.theguardian.com

Victoria’s anti-vilification laws: how will they change and who will they protect?

Protection on basis of disability, gender identity, sex and sexual orientation will keep communities safe and united, Jacinta Allan says
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 




BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,429
wellquickwoody said:
How about convicted murderer being allowed out of jail to receive IVF treatment? Permission granted today in Melbourne. :facepalm:

It is not about woke, or lefties etc etc, or at least it should not be. The killer killed her flatmate in a drug fuelled attack and was sentenced to sixteen years minimum.

Meanwhile the Victorian Premier yesterday backed new legislation making it an offence to incite hatred, serious contempt, revulsion or severe ridicule against another person or group based on their protected attribute”, with a penalty of up to three years’ imprisonment.
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I can't find a non-paywall link to the IVF story, why has she been released for it? Weird decision.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
68,173
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Algernon said:
And this.
"A man who was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder over the shooting of an eight-year-old girl and her father in west London has been released on bail."

HERE

How can that be right unless they don't think it was him?
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He hasn’t been charged yet. He’s been bailed pending further enquiries ie there’s not enough evidence yet.

Being arrested isn’t proof of anything.
 


N

nevergoagain

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2005
1,603
nowhere near Burgess Hill
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
And yet the government has been attacked by the 'anti-woke' for the courts (nothing to do with the government) locking up the twat rioters in the summer.

Your typical 'anti-woke' wanka wants longer sentences (for people doing crimes apart from the ones they do) and 'less' taxes. OK mates. But we could pay for it all, easy, if we throw out all the foringers and stop the boats. Sure we can.

The usual sorts among the public cherry pick cases to suit their own prejudices.

My suspicion is that on the whole the sentencing rubrics are managed well. Better than they would be with Farage or Andrew Tate or Badenough interfering.

And we get the governments and laws that we deserve.
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You were drinking again weren't you. Words fail me that you choose to push your agenda on this thread, have a day off.
 




happypig

happypig

Staring at the rude boys
May 23, 2009
8,222
Eastbourne
BNthree said:
Judges have guidelines for sentencing so when a sentence seems unduly lenient it’s usually because the government guidelines for that crime dictate the length of sentence.
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Exactly. Sentencing guidelines and structured sentencing were introduced so that there was equivalence; in theory (and, mostly, in practice) a similar crime will be sentenced similarly irrespective of where it is committed. The only variance is down to the bench/judge on the day, insofar as when something is "borderline", one bench may impose custody where another may suspend it but, most of the time, that is more due to the nature of the offender than the offence.
When I did training, we studied a fictitious case with elements of the offence/offender introduced bit by bit. At first it appeared imprisonment was appropriate but it ended up being a fine (IIRC).
 


happypig

happypig

Staring at the rude boys
May 23, 2009
8,222
Eastbourne
Zeberdi said:
On the contrary, Maximum (and minimum sentences) are set by Parliament not the judiciary - they are monitored by the Sentencing Council, linked to the Ministry of Justice (but operate independently) - Justices follow sentencing guidelines provided by the Sentencing Council who monitor how they are being implemented.

The guidelines for judges sentencing (or ‘Justices’ in the Supreme Court) come down from the Sentencing Council who are a non-departmental body - they don’t make it up as they go along and public policy is taken into account.

With less serious crimes, there have been guidelines in the past to impose a non-custodial suspended sentence in response to prison crisis:

The application of sentencing principles during a period when the prison population is very high – statement from the Chairman of the Sentencing Council – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

As I said, it wouldn’t surprise me if the overcrowding of prisons is impacting sentencing.
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I think you misunderstand me. If a judge or bench impose a sentence (having used the guidelines), the fact that there is pressure on prison/probation services isn't their problem. Any departure from the guidelines has to be "in the interests of justice". The fact that the government has neglected prison provision is not a valid reason. The statement you've quoted from the Chair of the Sentencing Council doesn't say "don't imprison people", it's a reminder to consider whether suspension should be given more weight.
In my experience suspended sentences can be more effective in reducing offending, even though the media like to report is as "WALKED FREE FROM COURT".
 


Seaview Seagull

Seaview Seagull

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 1, 2021
576
The Clamp said:
CPS would likely be trying to strike a balance between a criminal and welfare pathway when considering the sentence here.

Her actions are unlikely those of someone in possession of a sound mind.

A terribly sad and equally horrific case.
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The CPS have nothing to do with sentencing other than deciding what actual charges are brought.
 




Algernon

Algernon

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2012
3,240
Newmarket.
Thunder Bolt said:
He hasn’t been charged yet. He’s been bailed pending further enquiries ie there’s not enough evidence yet.

Being arrested isn’t proof of anything.
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Yes, I'm well aware of that but i expect they had something to convince them to arrest him.
If he had been arrested over something "trivial" e.g the theft of a case of wine from his local offy I could understand him being bailed.
But this is him being arrested, possibly guilty of the shooting and attempted murder of some bloke and his 8 year old daughter.
I can't imagine they arrested him unless they had some evidence but on the other hand I can't imagine they bailed him unless they didn't.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
68,173
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Algernon said:
Yes, I'm well aware of that but i expect they had something to convince them to arrest him.
If he had been arrested over something "trivial" e.g the theft of a case of wine from his local offy I could understand him being bailed.
But this is him being arrested, possibly guilty of the shooting and attempted murder of some bloke and his 8 year old daughter.
I can't imagine they arrested him unless they had some evidence but on the other hand I can't imagine they bailed him unless they didn't.
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The key word is suspicion. The police suspect they have the right person, but to charge them and go to court for a fair trial, they need evidence to back up that suspicion.
 








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