Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
It’s easy for him to sacrifice Ukraine. I’d rather send him to live there.
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[Politics] Tinkety tonk old fruit, and down with the Russians
- Thread starter Harry Wilson's tackle
- Start date
super-seagulls
Soup! Why didn’t I get any Soup?
Haven’t they been through enough already!
- Thread starter
- #23
This is beginning to make our sticking two fingers up to the EU and imagining a re-imagining of the 'special relationship' look a little naïve.
One can imagine Trump imposing trade sanctions on us for colluding with Biden against Putin.
And a reminder to the Brexiteers who feared such abominations as an EU army, the EU is so weak now, thanks to the rise of pissy nationalism, that Putin could match all the way to Portugal if Trump tells him that the US won't stand in his way.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 26,339
I don't know. Hopefully that is a barrier. I don't know how it works.
We're not the economic partners we were, but we're still allies.
Europe is more powerful than Russia
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Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
He’s certainly threatening Poland.
- Thread starter
- #27
1. For the moment. And don't forget we were allies from 1939 to 44 but the fuggers didn't lift a finger to help us till the Japanese blew up Pearl Harbour. The US is entirely self-interested, even when it has sane leadership.
2. er, yes if it acts in a collective manner. This requires EU consensus. I can't see Orbán agitating to stand up to Putin any time soon. The EU is a complete mess at the moment with no leadership.
I am grossly exaggerating the threats, of course. My point however is that we cannot assume certainties right now, and Putin is an absolute menace, just as Hitler was in the 30s. The chance of Putin marauding into Poland is low. But he will take as much of Ukraine as he wants, and the new border will be a turbulent place, representing as it were the interface between Eurasia and Oceana.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The rouble is tanking, admittedly.
Did you mean militarily? That would include NATO, and the USA under Trump is a liability. He sold Royal Naval secrets to Putin from Mar el Lago.
FatSuperman
Well-known member
- Feb 25, 2016
- 2,929
Trump will de-escalate but pulling support for Ukraine and costing up to Hitler.
Yes, I meant militarily. Economically it's even less close.
No, ignoring NATO, Europe is stronger than Russia militarily. If Russia had a conventional war with Europe, Europe would win easily.
- Thread starter
- #31
You might want to edit that. A bit
You realise my post was about Europe?
The EU might, but European countries don't.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,228
Any new border will be hard for Ukraine to defend just on the length of it alone but I think Moldova will be next on Putin’s expansion list after they’ve annexed (with Trump’s blessing’ more territory in Ukraine) - they already have the separatist enclave of Transdniestria in Eastern Moldova on the border with Ukraine - it wouldn’t be a big step to see Putin using the same political arguments for Moldova as he used about Ukraine vis a vis people there want to be under Russian rule/Russian speakers are being discriminated against etc - all of which of course was backed by Trump.
It would also explain why the UK Government signed a new defence deal with Romania 10 days ago:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-defence-treaty-with-romania-deepens-relations-and-supports-collective-security#:~:text=New%20Defence%20treaty%20with%20Romania%20deepens%20relations%20and%20supports%20collective%20security,-Defence%20Secretary%2C%20John&text=The%20UK's%20defence%20relationship%20with,the%20two%20countries'%20armed%20forces.
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
Do we know yet who Trump's deputy president will be?
Just in case, you know, the next sniper just might be a better shot ...
- Thread starter
- #35
Yes. And mine was about the historical as well as current willingness of the US to engage with a European war.
I assumed when you spoke of Europe being stronger than Russia (which on paper it is) I assumed you mean acting in concert. I am not so sure that individually countries such as Germany, France and the UK are each stronger than Russia.
I you want to focus on the EU bloc them we have to accept that it is not a coherent entity. If Putin invades Poland I cannot see the 'the EU' mounting a military rebuttal. And I cannot see the Hungarian president objecting to a realignment with Russia.
And my main point is Putin is a massive threat, emboldened by a weak EU and an America that has an incoming president couldn't care less about Ukraine et al. Counting the bombs and showing that collectively the EU has more than Russia, and more troops to die on the battlefield, doesn't change that.
maltaseagull
Well-known member
Perhaps it is time to show that to Putin?
Motogull
Todd Warrior
- Sep 16, 2005
- 10,578
I thought birth location was the qualification to be president. Maybe the buglekunnt could change the relevant rule. Much more important than gun control obviously.
Help from the US is nice, but Europe doesn't need it to defeat Russia.
Yes, UK, Germany, France, Poland etc in concert, but we can act militarily together without the whole EU joining in.
Seriously? I bloody hope we would.
- Thread starter
- #39
I hope you are right
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 772
It will probably come down to money, The U.S. will buy peace either publicly or covertly. Trump will likely succeed in brokering peace because of his lack of morality - not despite it. World we live in.