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[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......



chip

chip

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
1,324
Glorious Goodwood
From the FT today https://www.ft.com/content/0179adf7-e22e-4969-8143-986517b669d4

UK business activity has slumped to a 13-month low, as companies gave a “thumbs down” to policies announced in the Budget, according to a closely watched survey. The S&P Global flash UK PMI composite index fell to 49.9 in November from 51.8 in October, below the 50-point mark separating expansion from contraction and below economists’ expectations for no change.

Maybe a retail banker does not an economist make. Black Rock to the rescue?
 




N

nevergoagain

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2005
1,541
nowhere near Burgess Hill
Zeberdi said:
Still not looking as bad.

  • Coming clean on the state of the economy
  • First step reforms to NHS including desperately needed dentistry investment and ending doctors strikes
  • First step reforms to energy sector
  • Scrapping Rwanda scheme
  • Appointment of industry experts and shift from Whitehall mandarins
  • First step of reforms to public transport and introduction of the Better Buses Bill introducing a wider roll out of bus franchising - renationalising of the railways with the introduction of the Public Ownership Bill to deliver lower costs and an integrated national train service
Minus points for badly targeted IHT reforms and badly implemented winter fuel payment changes.

(Not getting into inflationary factors but “inflation rising again” is a gross simplification of the current state of the economy
Click to expand...
I fear we could do this dance all day.

  • Nothing changing on immigration in the main, yes some deportations but more boats, more hotels. Setting up a Border Force Command will cost money, surely we already had the border force to do that.
  • Ending doctors strikes with a whacking great increase with a parting comment that they will be back for more next year and sparking the rest of the NHS to demand more
  • Caving in to ASLEF but happy to take away WFP, perhaps the pensioners should start their own union.
  • Rwanda scrapped but looking into processing asylum claims overseas, surely could have reused some of those plans to save money.
  • Sue Gray debacle
  • Slum landlord Jas Athwal
  • Coming clean on the economy is just shouting £22bn black hole in every interview, and we've already seen that figure is shady.
  • 8 MP's suspended
  • Dawn Butler & Mike Amesbury
  • Lammy & Co having to deal with their Trump jibes not to mention the awkward 100 Labour activists being recruited for Harris campaign.
  • Louis Haigh & P&O
    etc etc etc
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,942
nevergoagain said:
I fear we could do this dance all day.
Click to expand...
In theory because that’s the nature of politics but practice we won’t.

- Because I neither have the time nor inclination you’ve clearly already dedicated to this thread in trying to prove the Labour Party are in meltdown and doing worse than the Tories. 🙂
 


N

nevergoagain

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2005
1,541
nowhere near Burgess Hill
Zeberdi said:
In theory because that’s the nature of politics but practice we won’t.

- Because I neither have the time nor inclination you’ve clearly already dedicated to this thread in trying to prove the Labour Party are in meltdown and doing worse than the Tories. 🙂
Click to expand...
Oh My God Omg GIF
 






Rdodge30

Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
648
Zeberdi said:
Labour Party are in meltdown and doing worse than the Tories. 🙂
Click to expand...
They are not doing worse than the Tories but they are not doing well, only time will tell but I think this budget was an economy crasher - and I am fed up with hearing how it is the previous government’s fault or Brexit.
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,592
Gods country fortnightly
Zeberdi said:
Still not looking as bad.

  • Coming clean on the state of the economy
  • First step reforms to NHS including desperately needed dentistry investment and ending doctors strikes
  • First step reforms to energy sector
  • Scrapping Rwanda scheme
  • Appointment of industry experts and shift from Whitehall mandarins
  • First step of reforms to public transport and introduction of the Better Buses Bill introducing a wider roll out of bus franchising - renationalising of the railways with the introduction of the Public Ownership Bill to deliver lower costs and an integrated national train service
Minus points for badly targeted IHT reforms and badly implemented winter fuel payment changes.

(Not getting into inflationary factors but “inflation rising again” is a gross simplification of the current state of the economy
Click to expand...
Despite all the faux outrage think they're doing OK.

Resolving industrial disputes in the public sector is a biggie, I hope fewer of people will be leaving these shores now people will feel a bit more valued.
 


Jim in the West

Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,957
Way out West
nevergoagain said:
I fear we could do this dance all day.

  • Nothing changing on immigration in the main, yes some deportations but more boats, more hotels. Setting up a Border Force Command will cost money, surely we already had the border force to do that.
  • Ending doctors strikes with a whacking great increase with a parting comment that they will be back for more next year and sparking the rest of the NHS to demand more
  • Caving in to ASLEF but happy to take away WFP, perhaps the pensioners should start their own union.
  • Rwanda scrapped but looking into processing asylum claims overseas, surely could have reused some of those plans to save money.
  • Sue Gray debacle
  • Slum landlord Jas Athwal
  • Coming clean on the economy is just shouting £22bn black hole in every interview, and we've already seen that figure is shady.
  • 8 MP's suspended
  • Dawn Butler & Mike Amesbury
  • Lammy & Co having to deal with their Trump jibes not to mention the awkward 100 Labour activists being recruited for Harris campaign.
  • Louis Haigh & P&O
    etc etc etc
Click to expand...

A few quick responses:

- The increase for doctors was significant, but we were haemoraging doctors (retiring early, moving overseas, etc) - the pay increase was essential in a bid to stop that hugely damaging "brain drain" - and if the rest of the NHS gets more as a result, then that won't be a bad thing - health care workers have been poorly paid for years;
- The ASLEF deal was only marginally above the Tories' offer - and it will pay for itself many times over in the increased productivity resulting from cessation of the strikes
- Rwanda was scrapped because it was a huge waste of money (and illegal)!!!
- The £22bn black hole figure is not "shady" - the true gross figure was over £35bn (as evidenced by Full Fact). The Tory party disputed it, mainly on the basis that it was Labour who agreed the public sector pay deals (which accounted for £9bn)....but all Labour was doing was implementing the pay review bodies' recommendations. The Tories (in their estimates) had used a figure of 2% across the public sector, which was clearly wholly inadequate. I can easily imagine that - if the Tories had won the GE and then tried to implement 2% pay deals - we would have a humungous "winter of discontent" and we'd have constant public sector strikes ahead of us.

Clearly everything is not rosy at the mo, but if we still had the Tories in power it would be a whole lot worse!
 




Rdodge30

Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
648
Jim in the West said:
and it will pay for itself many times over in the increased productivity resulting from cessation of the strikes
Click to expand...
That’s not increased productivity! When you refuse to work you reduce output …. Then when you go back to work for a couple of billion more the output returns to exactly where it was before you reduced it … and the input goes up by £B’s …. that is reduced productivity
 








S

Seecider

Active member
Apr 25, 2009
228
nicko31 said:
Despite all the faux outrage think they're doing OK.

Resolving industrial disputes in the public sector is a biggie, I hope fewer of people will be leaving these shores now people will feel a bit more valued.
Click to expand...
Don't expect to be able to get a train on a Sunday now.
 


Jim in the West

Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,957
Way out West
Rdodge30 said:
That’s not increased productivity! When you refuse to work you reduce output …. Then when you go back to work for a couple of billion more the output returns to exactly where it was before you reduced it … and the input goes up by £B’s …. that is reduced productivity
Click to expand...
I think you're being deliberately obtuse - the financial payback is in the avoidance of the strikes - which would have continued ad infinitum under the Tories.
 












Rdodge30

Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
648
Jim in the West said:
I think you're being deliberately obtuse - the financial payback is in the avoidance of the strikes - which would have continued ad infinitum under the Tories.
Click to expand...
Absolutely not.

Your statement is wrong.

The Labour Government came in to a fanfare of increasing productivity in order to grow the economy.

This settlement is exactly the opposite of increasing productivity, it is paying more for the same thing.

If you meant that by agreeing this financial settlement the strikers returned to work and the trains ran on time and everything was back to normal and we were better off in terms of rail transport than we were under the previous government …. Then you are absolutely correct
 




jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,592
nicko31 said:
Despite all the faux outrage think they're doing OK.

Resolving industrial disputes in the public sector is a biggie, I hope fewer of people will be leaving these shores now people will feel a bit more valued.
Click to expand...
Well I don’t think it’s going great…
 




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