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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)











Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,621
Goldstone
Imagine if a foreign nation (say...Belarus) began launching interballistic missiles from their country into England - missiles which were directly supplied by the Russians, and given the green light by Putin to do so.

What should our response be, given that its basically what we are doing to Russia ?

We are supplying weapons for Ukraine to defend themselves against an invasion. We are limiting the use of those weapons to military targets. Have we invaded Belarus?
 


Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,457
So suggesting that those agents can do enough damage to scare us into withdrawing sanctions? I can't see that happening.
Do you remember I queried why they mentioned Portugal?

Twice previously, I have heard Russians (once Medvedev, and a panellist on a propaganda show) refer to expanding west to the Atlantic. This might be what they mean. All part of the grand plan.
 




raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,656
Wiltshire
Applications are invited for the following positions on the Russia invades Ukraine thread:

Expert - Russian invasions. Must have relevant experience in a) being Russian or b) invading neighbouring countries. Misplaced arrogance and brutality a bonus.
Expert - Ukraine. Must have married a Ukrainian woman (the circumstances of your meeting will never be divulged or discussed).
Expert - Military strategist. Must have military experience or be convincing enough to get away with it.
Expert - Collapse of Russian economy. This position is unlikely to appeal to real economists.
Hey, am I losing my job 😂
 




raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,656
Wiltshire
Do you remember I queried why they mentioned Portugal?

Twice previously, I have heard Russians (once Medvedev, and a panellist on a propaganda show) refer to expanding west to the Atlantic. This might be what they mean. All part of the grand plan.
Yes, they've mentioned Portugal before - it has a longer summer season than Crimea for oligarch holidays 😉
 






raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,656
Wiltshire
Mind the gap - the ruble is finding it difficult to even maintain parity with one US cent.

Next stop, the UK decimal ha'penny (which was withdrawn from circulation in 1984, when Gorbachev was president).

After that, it's the old imperial UK penny, then an old imperial UK ha'penny, then a farthing.

1.00 Russian Ruble = 0.0098929331 US Dollars

1 USD = 101.082 RUB

Like I said...0.8 cent is a good target 'support' value 😉
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,656
Wiltshire
Probably being dense and missing something obvious but why is Putin having a hissy fit about this? Have all the previous weapons used and other bits and bobs all been Ukrainian built or something?

Why is this any different?
I think it's just because he knows these weapons can cause more damage, and the west seems reenergized in it's support of Ukraine-
 




raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,656
Wiltshire
Yes, Russia invaded its neighbour and we have been helping them fight them off (and now counterattack them with long range missiles). In Putin's eyes this invasion, this war, is entirely justified. It doesn't matter what the World perception is over its unjustified invasion of a sovereign nation. Putin doesn't give a f*ck over the rights and wrongs of it.

The missiles GB and USA are supplying have a range of around 150 miles. From Ukraine, thats not going to hit Moscow. But its still a serious escalation when our missiles are raining down into Russian territory, with our blessing. Putin is a nutter. He's not going to show weakness to the West by shrugging his shoulders at this, imo.
The west/Ukraine are not escalating IMO, they are just using available means to defend themselves.
Russia has escalated numerous times. Russia commits war crimes DAILY by targeting apartments, hospitals, power station, and just by indiscriminate bombing.
 








raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,656
Wiltshire
Interesting change of tack. Zelenskiy on Fox news, a key Republican news channel: 14.45 approx.
Lindsey Graham advocates for Ukraine by talking about the value of resources/rare earth materials in Ukraine (and not defending democracy). As Jake says, this is how to get the attention of MAGA. It's at 17.00 minutes.
 


Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,822
Telford
Imagine if a foreign nation (say...Belarus) began launching interballistic missiles from their country into England - missiles which were directly supplied by the Russians, and given the green light by Putin to do so.

What should our response be, given that its basically what we are doing to Russia ?
I know this may fail the reasonable comparison test but let's try. I used a similar "story" 40 years ago trying to persuade a young lady at a party why unilateral nuclear disarmament was a bad idea.

The bloke who lives next door to you is a member of a family involved in serious crime. You share this with me and I say I have a spare gun you can have to protect yourself.

Sometime later the wrong 'un from next door is banging on your door. A fracas ensues and you shoot him (using the gun you got from me). His dad is very cross about this, but would he be interested in directing his anger at me for supplying the gun to you or at you for pulling the trigger?
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,656
Wiltshire
Do we know if we gifted these or they were purchased, market value, or otherwise.
Not sure about ours but much (most??) of American missiles, ATACMS etc, have been donated, because they were earmarked for expensive decommissioning, due to shelf life. So, in reality, the US money is actually paid to US defence companies to replace for the US.
It's really not represented well on mainstream media.
 


Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
62,465
Location Location
Have we invaded Belarus recently killing thousands of civilians and destroying towns?
Thats not really my point. We're dealing with a volatile character who could react. Whether we'd invaded anyone is neither here nor there.
 




Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
62,465
Location Location
We are supplying weapons for Ukraine to defend themselves against an invasion. We are limiting the use of those weapons to military targets. Have we invaded Belarus?
No.
But I'm not talking about whether it would be 'justified' or not. We're dealing with an unpredictable crackpot dictator who at the moment is seeing British missiles pummelling his country. In his head, that might justify putting us in the crosshairs. An attack on a NATO nation would be a massive escalation obviously, so it could all be bluster as usual. We hope.
 


Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
26,343
No.
But I'm not talking about whether it would be 'justified' or not. We're dealing with an unpredictable crackpot dictator who at the moment is seeing British missiles pummelling his country. In his head, that might justify putting us in the crosshairs. An attack on a NATO nation would be a massive escalation obviously, so it could all be bluster as usual. We hope.
Although I'm guessing there is nothing to stop him using another nation to attack Western interests arguing that it is no different to how Ukraine is being supported by proxy- or just denying it.
 


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