[News] John Prescott RIP

Dave the hatosaurus · 2024-11-21T11:18:59+0000

RIP John, and thanks for the part you played in getting us to our new home.

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2024-11-21T11:20:31+0000

Hugo Rune said:
I’m not sure I quite agree with that.

In his tribute to Prescott, Alistair Campbell spoke about how he had the ability to listen to arguments and change his view. Prescott changed his mind on removing clause 4 which was fundamental to Labour modernising and finally becoming electable.

Unlike the likes of Thatcher and Corbyn, he was more than a principle driven MP, he could actually hear other voices and judge what was better for the party and country rather than blindly sticking to his core beliefs.

Both Corbyn and Benn were effective in opposition and in the house because of this rigid belief in their own principles and views of the world, a functioning democracy needs many different voices and options in Parliament; but in Government because you have to listen to others and compromise or change your views, that way of working is problematic. Thatcher and the poll tax is a prime example of where the inability to listen to others or to take the correct advice causes huge issues for the party and country.

But I’m fully behind your point that we need more politicians like Prescott.

I was going to post the same. In fact Prescott, Benn and Thatcher all changed. Thatcher came to disagree with her party, changed and subsequently changed her party, shredding the post-war consensus. Benn was a good little minister in the 60s, till he fell in love with his own cleverness. Prescott was prepared to modernize his outlook in backing young Mr Tony, and understood that without compromise you don't become the government, and that when in government is always better to seek the greater good than insist on promoting a doctrine and massaging one's ego.

(I have never had much faith in @Giraffe 's political insights, and have no reason to change my view now :wink:

)

PeterT · 2024-11-21T11:23:09+0000

It’s a shame that there seem to be a good number of politicians around that give politicians a bad name. Prescott was one of those that gave you your faith back in the political system, who had some vision and did some good. RIP.

Common as Mook · 2024-11-21T11:28:59+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Ironic that it is only the extreme left that feels the need to put the boot in today.

Nope, not me. Just someone who thinks that the life of innocent Iraqis deserves some sort of recognition. Appreciate that seems to be a niche opinion, but I'm pretty comfortable with it

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2024-11-21T11:38:13+0000

Common as Mook said:
Nope, not me. Just someone who thinks that the life of innocent Iraqis deserves some sort of recognition. Appreciate that seems to be a niche opinion, but I'm pretty comfortable with it

Fair enough,. Not sure that a Prescott RIP thread is the best place to raise this however, if you were hoping to garner support for your chosen cause.

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2024-11-21T11:41:55+0000

lawros left foot said:
Starmer would kick him out.

Silly comment. Why?

Starmer has in fact copied Blair by having a 'person of the people' (with a bit of grit and a flappy mouth) as deputy.

I am frankly disappointed that all the sniping on this thread has come from the left. It is as if the left (well, left of me, a Labour party member) resent the success of Blair and Prescott achieving the art of the possible.

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2024-11-21T11:42:53+0000

lawros left foot said:
You either don’t understand the term’Champagne Socialist’ or you don’t know John Prescott history.

Born to a proper working class family, left school at 14, joined the Merchant Navy, not as an officer but as a steward, worked his way up in theNational Union of Seamen, and became a left wing MP.
I admit, taking the Ermine doesn’t sit well with me, but, he at least used his time in the Lords to try to do some good, unlike most.

RIP John and a heartfelt thank you.

That's more like it :thumbsup:

Common as Mook · 2024-11-21T11:43:10+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Fair enough,. Not sure that a Prescott RIP thread is the best place to raise this however, if you were hoping to garner support for your chosen cause.

Prominent public figures who have been directly responsible for catastrophic loss of life shouldn't have that whitewashed. If anything, it's the perfect time to present a balanced view. Same for Thatcher, same for all.

Hugo Rune · 2024-11-21T11:44:34+0000

jcdenton08 said:
Re: Thatcher and poll tax, isn’t the commonly agreed consensus that she was quite literally losing her mind by that point with her dementia beginning to affect her?

Poll tax was grossly unfair and replaced in 1993 with council tax, which while slightly fairer still wasn’t perfect

Indeed. Poor judgement from her that was impossible to remedy because she never listened to anyone.

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2024-11-21T11:44:57+0000

Common as Mook said:
Prominent public figures who have been directly responsible for catastrophic loss of life shouldn't have that whitewashed. If anything, it's the perfect time to present a balanced view. Same for Thatcher, same for all.

Directly, though. And perspective, though. And time and place, though.

But do carry on. Someone somewhere is bound to agree with you.

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2024-11-21T11:46:42+0000

Hugo Rune said:
Indeed. Poor judgement from her that was impossible to remedy because she never listened to anyone.

And the strength of single-mindedness eventually (always) becomes a weakness.

And as you noted, the exact opposite of Prescott. He was perhaps the ultimate team player :thumbsup:

lawros left foot · 2024-11-21T11:48:18+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Silly comment. Why?

Starmer has in fact copied Blair by having a 'person of the people' (with a bit of grit and a flappy mouth) as deputy.

I am frankly disappointed that all the sniping against Prescott on this thread has come from the left. It is as if the left (well, left of me, a Labour party member) resent the success of Blair and Prescott achieving the art of the possible.

On the contrary, Blair was an excellent politician, as was Prescott, and together they achieved some remarkable success.

But, that first term Labour cabinet had some very astute and talented people in it.
Mo Mowlem Claire Short, Robin Cook, Jack Straw, Frank Dobson, Milburn, Brown.

I personally didn’t agree with all that transpired, but they started very well.

Common as Mook · 2024-11-21T11:53:08+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Directly, though. And perspective, though. And time and place, though.

But do carry on. Someone somewhere is bound to agree with you.

Dont you worry, about that sunshine. I will.

Herr Tubthumper · 2024-11-21T11:56:36+0000

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/pages/en/media-article/john-prescott-rip

Zeberdi · 2024-11-21T12:01:47+0000

Common as Mook said:
Nope, not me. Just someone who thinks that the life of innocent Iraqis deserves some sort of recognition. Appreciate that seems to be a niche opinion, but I'm pretty comfortable with it

Common as Mook said:
Prominent public figures who have been directly responsible for catastrophic loss of life shouldn't have that whitewashed. If anything, it's the perfect time to present a balanced view. Same for Thatcher, same for all.

Inappropriate for you to be airing your negative views about a Politician on his RIP thread - take it elsewhere.

JP was one of one of a dying breed of conviction Politicians who garnered respect from both sides of the Aisle

Tom Hark Preston Park · 2024-11-21T12:02:51+0000

A shitty binfest on an RIP thread relating to a great friend of the Albion? Really?

Tom Hark Preston Park · 2024-11-21T12:17:18+0000

I'll always cherish how JP signed the back of my ST at Falmer station while we were waiting for a train back into town. Even whipped out his own magic marker pen when my cheapo biro just skidded over the surface. And when I explained to ticket office next home game they replaced it free of charge. Good times, good people

Guinness Boy · 2024-11-21T12:37:21+0000

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
A shitty binfest on an RIP thread relating to a great friend of the Albion? Really?

This.

There are about 6 other threads on which you can bitch about Labour past and present. This isn't one of them.

Knock it off and show some respect. If you didn't like him, despite what he did for the club, then put this thread on ignore.

Thanks

Zeberdi · 2024-11-21T12:43:06+0000

Guinness Boy said:
This.

There are about 6 other threads on which you can bitch about Labour past and present. This isn't one of them.

Knock it off and show some respect. If you didn't like him, despite what he did for the club, then put this thread on ignore.

Thanks

Agree as I said above THPP’s post - take it elsewhere

Eeyore · 2024-11-21T12:47:03+0000

Giraffe said:
I admired Prescott, the same way I admired Tony Benn and Margaret Thatcher. Regardless of their views, they were passionate and said what they believed in. He never changed (despite the croquet moment) and that is to be applauded. Oh to have politicians on both sides now like him. It's a sadder world without them.

Quite. And the idea that he was 'left' by some here is misguided. It was him who fronted the New Labour philosophy and got full nationalisation off the agenda with a famous conference speech.

But let's move away from that. All you say is correct and he will go down in Albion folklore. He was instrumental in us getting the ground. He was also a political heavyweight, appropriate given his boxing background and the egg incident. I'm a passive man, but I fully understood what happened there. Above all he was human like the rest of us.

RIP- he went the full distance and was a good man of conviction. Genuinely a sad RIP.

So had to hear he had dementia. It's hard to fathom. So cruel.

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