[News] Farmers

abc · Tuesday at 7:25 PM

Herr Tubthumper said:
Why, in your opinion, not?

My understanding is that IHT will apply to farmland in Ltd cos too. But even if I am wrong, for smaller family farms becoming a Ltd co adds a lot of costs and complications for businesses that are already making small profits. Another issue is that a farmhouse in a company would be subject to CGT. They often cannot be separated from the land in the eyes of the HMRC.

It is certainly not straightforward and I guess if it was, then there would be no reason for farmers to demonstrate or any point in the gov changing the rules in the first place!

Ps im not an accountant so please correct any of my statements that are wrong!

Springal · Tuesday at 7:36 PM

Just a reminder as well last year the major supermarket chains made over £4bn of profit between them as well

jonny.rainbow · Tuesday at 7:36 PM

5Ways Gull said:
Any sympathy I may have had disappeared when Clarkson piled in!

I suspect Clarkson’s farm ownership is much less to do with his interest in agriculture and much more to do with the previous generation tax breaks offered to our tweed-wearing straw chompers.

beorhthelm · Tuesday at 7:36 PM

Bodian said:
Because that's the reality.

in some cases, maybe. if you applied similar to the authors suggested level you'd end up at £6m or something higher. in either case, seems inflating potential relief from £1m to £3m is just to avoid the principle.

Bodian · Tuesday at 7:37 PM

Eh? Isn't this rather defeating their argument? The argument is that farmers cannot afford the IHT and it will make them all bankrupt - because they are struggling financially already. Yet the accusation is that Labour are targeting 'wealthy landowners'.....

vegster · Tuesday at 7:43 PM

Its taken a while but, it seems the right wing media has found a good opportunity to bash the government here using farmers. The facts are that few will be affected and even then they are paying only a small amount over ten years, interest free.. even BBC Verify have said this is so. at least we have all forgotten about Michelle Mone and the Teesside Freeport scandals along with all the others.

Kinky Gerbil · Tuesday at 7:55 PM

Springal said:
Just a reminder as well last year the major supermarket chains made over £4bn of profit between them as well

May have misheard the report earlier, but I think someone said tescos profits are around 3 percent, so the margin is fairly small

Sainsburys only made 137 million after tax, how much will be wiped out with increases NI/wage etc?

Only had one ear on it, so may have misheard

chip · Tuesday at 7:55 PM

Addressing a packed room of MPs, Peers and NFU representatives, Farming Minister Daniel Zeichner committed to “enhance” Britain's food security with “a new deal for farmers” (07.24). https://www.nfuonline.com/updates-and-information/nfu-summer-reception/

That didn't last long then. Don't worry, it won't affect many. Your turn is coming soon....

BrightonCottager · Tuesday at 8:11 PM

Springal said:
We’re all to blame anyway for giving all our money to supermarkets.

Last year I discovered I can go to Trenchmore Farm near Cowfold, pay the same price /kg for a roasting joint of Sussex beef of significantly better quality as Sainsbury’s will charge you as one example.

Pork seems a bit more tricky, I try to use a local tenant farmer but his bacon is £5 a pack which is a lot more than supermarket but significantly better quality.

Chicken is pretty difficult as well given the terrible conditions we accept for cheap supermarket chicken

But we are all lazy and want the convenience of a supermarket and don’t really care about farmers, unless the media tells us to be

Mrs BC buys organic lamb directly from a farm near Sheffield Park for £9 or £10 / kg which she says is far superior to anything available in the shops here. And I'm happy because it keeps her away from 'Butcher Boy' in Barfields (which @Brovion will be pleased to hear).

drew · Tuesday at 8:20 PM

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Many of which are not viable.

Many are owned by people with other jobs and are hobby farmers

That's fair enough but have you got evidence for that statement?

WATFORD zero · Tuesday at 8:23 PM

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Many of which are not viable.

Many are owned by people with other jobs and are hobby farmers

But the simple facts are

WATFORD zero said:
64% of farms in the UK are under 100 acres (50% under 50 acres).

So you're telling us that 'professional' farmers are dying on their arse, whilst claiming over 50 % of the farmers in Britain who do it for a living are actually hobbyists who are running businesses that aren't viable (I thought there was a law against that)

It's almost like getting Jeremy Clarkson and Andrew Lloyd Webber to explain the case for Multi millionaire farmers to be the exception when they pass on their businesses to their children :facepalm:

drew · Tuesday at 8:29 PM

Not sure if there have been any comments on this but why can't the farmers 'gift' the farm to their children and, providing they don't die within 7 years, it won't be subject to IHT? Also, take out life insurance for the next 7 years to cover IHT if you die within that period!

WATFORD zero · Tuesday at 8:30 PM

abc said:
My understanding is that IHT will apply to farmland in Ltd cos too. But even if I am wrong, for smaller family farms becoming a Ltd co adds a lot of costs and complications for businesses that are already making small profits. Another issue is that a farmhouse in a company would be subject to CGT. They often cannot be separated from the land in the eyes of the HMRC.

It is certainly not straightforward and I guess if it was, then there would be no reason for farmers to demonstrate or any point in the gov changing the rules in the first place!

Ps im not an accountant so please correct any of my statements that are wrong!

The moment you have a limited company with shareholders, the rules are completely and utterly different, on account of the fact a 'ltd company' and 'a family' are not the same. It's what the vast majority of 'family owned' businesses do.

That's where you are completely wrong. Sorry :shrug:

WATFORD zero · Tuesday at 8:30 PM

drew said:
Not sure if there have been any comments on this but why can't the farmers 'gift' the farm to their children and, providing they don't die within 7 years, it won't be subject to IHT? Also, take out life insurance for the next 7 years to cover IHT if you die within that period!

What, like normal people

Harry Wilson's tackle · Tuesday at 8:37 PM

abc said:
Many countries around the world have massively lower production costs than the uk (no idea specifically about Chile) due to everything from wages, legislation and land costs to environmental and welfare standards. Furthermore, most countries subsidise their farmers, we no longer do in the Uk (except for payments to grow wild flowers not food).

By all means, close down our farms and buy in everything from abroad. You may find you have some very empty shelves in the supermarket.

I don't want to close the farms.

I'd rather see massive tariffs on absurdly imported cheap food from miles away.

ManOfSussex · Tuesday at 8:43 PM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I don't want to close the farms.

I'd rather see massive tariffs on absurdly imported cheap food from miles away.

Because of the chemicals they put in their chips?

ManOfSussex · Tuesday at 8:47 PM

drew said:
Not sure if there have been any comments on this but why can't the farmers 'gift' the farm to their children and, providing they don't die within 7 years, it won't be subject to IHT? Also, take out life insurance for the next 7 years to cover IHT if you die within that period!

Because they make pigs smoke and give beefburgers to swans.

abc · Tuesday at 8:53 PM

WATFORD zero said:
The moment you have a limited company with shareholders, the rules are completely and utterly different, on account of the fact a 'ltd company' and 'a family' are not the same. It's what the vast majority of 'family owned' businesses do.

That's where you are completely wrong. Sorry

Fair enough, I am now better informed!

A1X · Tuesday at 8:54 PM

PILTDOWN MAN · Tuesday at 8:56 PM

WATFORD zero said:
But the simple facts are

So you're telling us that 'professional' farmers are dying on their arse, whilst claiming over 50 % of the farmers in Britain who do it for a living are actually hobbyists who are running businesses that aren't viable (I thought there was a law against that)

It's almost like getting Jeremy Clarkson and Andrew Lloyd Webber to explain the case for Multi millionaire farmers to be the exception when they pass on their businesses to their children

You do realise the classification of a farm includes non producing ones with horses on? Many smallholdings with farm in their name are no more than large gardens with big pets.

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