[News] Farmers

Harry Wilson's tackle · Tuesday at 5:57 PM

zefarelly said:
At a garden centre earlier this year, in Sussex, there was a big Fruit n veg stall outside, oh great I thought . . . Some local produce . . . I bought a few bits, clearly being so early in the season not all was loal, soft fruit for example . . .but I hoped the root vag was as we're between allotments and had little of our own this year . . . . I also grabbed a net bag of garlic, assuming it was from Spain/Italy most likely, looked plump. . . . . When I got home I read the label . . . China . . . . Garlic from China. that really is madness, I felt really bad for not having checked, and the garlic was absolutely shit.

I agree with MJ's ghost, and many others, education is the key . . . . Capitalism keeps it for the elite with good reason. Idiots are easily manipulated and most of us are. .

as for the economics of the farms . . . They've voted to shoot themselves in the foot, taken all the subsidies and do whatevers most profitable . . . They don't give a f*** about what we want or need. They're a business just like any other. But an asset rich business thats sheltered to protect the establishment.

Yep.

Ironically I buy all my produce from the local farm shop (Macknade) at high price to support local farmers and get pesticide-free veg, free range meat and even nitrate-free sausages. So I am prepared to pay the price for quality.

Incidentally, has anyone mention 'red' diesel yet?

Bozza · Tuesday at 5:57 PM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I think you have proven @Herr Tubthumper 's point. This (hardball from supermarkets) has indeed been going on for decades, but it is only now that Labour are in charge that the farmers have mobilized in their hundreds of thousands in London to demand action.

He said that there had been "with little to no complaint " when there has been plenty.

Of course, whilst some people can and will pay more for their food and produce, many can't - they don't have the luxury of being able to spend more than they need to - so sympathy from the wider public has been difficult to obtain.

The supermarket chains drive down prices they pay producers so that consumers pay less in their stores. And that makes most people happy.

drew · Tuesday at 5:57 PM

Bozza said:
Anyway, this is all a big positive for Labour.

As the cold weather sets in, it will help keep focus away from all the pensioners who will be freezing due to the cruel, callous and dangerous government targeting of some of society's most vulnerable.

You seem to suggest that all pensioners are going to freeze!

zefarelly · Tuesday at 6:00 PM

Super markets have been beating up suppliers for decades, my limited experience ( I worked for a warehouse/logistic Co 20 years ago) was they go to a great supplier . . . Slowly hoover up all their product until they have no other customers then turn the screw. . . I saw a classic example of it in Launceston where a cake Company were expanding, to the point 95% of their business was Tesco . . . Tesco demanded 100% consistency in ream so they were forced to use a super dairy somewhere in the Midlands, instead of the local Devonshire dairies . . . . They went with it . . . . Without Tesco they'd die . . . . . the structure of the whole industry is a mess . . . And we keep buying shit from large supermarkets en masse to sustain the practices.

drew · Tuesday at 6:00 PM

Bozza said:
He said that there had been "with little to no complaint " when there has been plenty.

Of course, whilst some people can and will pay more for their food and produce, many can't - they don't have the luxury of being able to spend more than they need to - so sympathy from the wider public has been difficult to obtain.

The supermarket chains drive down prices they pay producers so that consumers pay less in their stores. And that makes most people happy.

Or Supermarkets could lower their profit expectations!!

Herr Tubthumper · Tuesday at 6:01 PM

Bozza said:
Are you being serious?

Supermarket buying practices has been a talking point for years, likely decades.

From a 5-minute search, I found the following articles, and this sample paragaph is typical of a story I've heard countless times:

"The week began with a price negotiation with a very large supermarket over one of the products that we supply to them. I say “negotiation”; strictly speaking we had already agreed the price once, they wanted it lower still. In fact, I don’t know why I’m calling it a negotiation at all – the buyer demanded a 21% price reduction if we wanted to keebusiness and that was that."

2004 - Farmers take Tesco to task over 'ruthless' pricing - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...sco-to-task-over-ruthless-pricing-732745.html

2009 -Ireland-Farmers complaining over supermarkets profits - https://www.farminguk.com/news/ireland-farmers-complaining-over-supermarkets-profits-_15413.html

2011 - British farmers forced to pay the cost of supermarket price wars - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jul/02/british-farmers-supermarket-price-wars

2012 -Supermarket price negotiations – they work both ways - https://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/supermarket-price-negotiations-they-work-both-ways

2016 - Pig farmers are 'more vulnerable to unfair treatment by supermarkets' as prices fall - https://www.farminguk.com/news/pig-...ent-by-supermarkets-as-prices-fall_38478.html

2022 - Food prices: Why farmers get the smallest share and how to change it - https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/food-prices-why-farmers-get-the-smallest-share-and-how-to-change-it -

2024 - Supermarkets under fire for squeezing farmers in supply chain - https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/supermarkets-under-fire-squeezing-farmers-9055436

I am serious. I am aware of previous farmers gripes and complaints, but I am not aware of a protest of this scale before, with them driving to Downing Street and flooding the media. Even the first two links you posted demonstrate this with “take to Tesco to task” and “complain over supermarkets” etc being as radical as it’s got. Maybe I have missed it but the current protests seems another level entirely. Why now?

Cordwainer · Tuesday at 6:04 PM

Sorry if it’s already been asked here, but why/when were farms/farmland exempted from IHT?

zefarelly · Tuesday at 6:05 PM

Bozza said:
He said that there had been "with little to no complaint " when there has been plenty.

Of course, whilst some people can and will pay more for their food and produce, many can't - they don't have the luxury of being able to spend more than they need to - so sympathy from the wider public has been difficult to obtain.

The supermarket chains drive down prices they pay producers so that consumers pay less in their stores. And that makes most people happy.

If more people bought locally it would be fairer and more sustainable . . . Remember those cheap veg from supermarkerts are also being driven round in lorries, flung through distribution depots and also have to sustain profits . . . lots of that comes from the continent, so malking things worse both ends of the stick!

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Yep.

Ironically I buy all my produce from the local farm shop (Macknade) at high price to support local farmers and get pesticide-free veg, free range meat and even nitrate-free sausages. So I am prepared to pay the price for quality.

Incidentally, has anyone mention 'red' diesel yet?

DO you need some, there are several outlets near here ;-)

we grow a lot of our own these days . . . Not sauasages, there does seem to be a lack of good butchers, or butchers who sell good & local meat!

Herr Tubthumper · Tuesday at 6:07 PM

Bozza said:
He said that there had been "with little to no complaint " when there has been plenty.

Of course, whilst some people can and will pay more for their food and produce, many can't - they don't have the luxury of being able to spend more than they need to - so sympathy from the wider public has been difficult to obtain.

The supermarket chains drive down prices they pay producers so that consumers pay less in their stores. And that makes most people happy.

By “little to no complaint” I am talking in the context of now and I was speaking relatively and figuratively. My feeling is that there has been little to no complain relative to the mobilizing which is happening at the moment. If this was not clear from my initial post then fair enough. I hope it is now.

KZNSeagull · Tuesday at 6:12 PM

Herr Tubthumper said:
I am serious. I am aware of previous farmers gripes and complaints, but I am not aware of a protest of this scale before, with them driving to Downing Street and flooding the media. Even the first two links you posted demonstrate this with “take to Tesco to task” and “complain over supermarkets” etc being as radical as it’s got. Maybe I have missed it but the current protests seems another level entirely. Why now?

Because the government made it a key item in the budget and people are presumably paying attention. No point protesting when people aren't listening.

clapham_gull · Tuesday at 6:16 PM

Austrian Gull said:
Not sure who's more loathsome - Clarkson or Lloyd Webber.

Wait for Clarkson The Musical and we can have a public vote.

keaton · Tuesday at 6:17 PM

Bozza said:
Are you being serious?

Supermarket buying practices has been a talking point for years, likely decades.

From a 5-minute search, I found the following articles, and this sample paragaph is typical of a story I've heard countless times:

"The week began with a price negotiation with a very large supermarket over one of the products that we supply to them. I say “negotiation”; strictly speaking we had already agreed the price once, they wanted it lower still. In fact, I don’t know why I’m calling it a negotiation at all – the buyer demanded a 21% price reduction if we wanted to keep the business and that was that."

2004 - Farmers take Tesco to task over 'ruthless' pricing - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...sco-to-task-over-ruthless-pricing-732745.html

2009 -Ireland-Farmers complaining over supermarkets profits - https://www.farminguk.com/news/ireland-farmers-complaining-over-supermarkets-profits-_15413.html

2011 - British farmers forced to pay the cost of supermarket price wars - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jul/02/british-farmers-supermarket-price-wars

2012 -Supermarket price negotiations – they work both ways - https://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/supermarket-price-negotiations-they-work-both-ways

2016 - Pig farmers are 'more vulnerable to unfair treatment by supermarkets' as prices fall - https://www.farminguk.com/news/pig-...ent-by-supermarkets-as-prices-fall_38478.html

2022 - Food prices: Why farmers get the smallest share and how to change it - https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/food-prices-why-farmers-get-the-smallest-share-and-how-to-change-it -

2024 - Supermarkets under fire for squeezing farmers in supply chain - https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/supermarkets-under-fire-squeezing-farmers-9055436

Yes but I think the point they don't seem to have protested or done much until now

LamieRobertson · Tuesday at 6:17 PM

drew said:
You seem to suggest that all pensioners are going to freeze!

Personally I havnt read it that way

clapham_gull · Tuesday at 6:18 PM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Incidentally, has anyone mention 'red' diesel yet?

Red Diesel is the closing number in the second act.

keaton · Tuesday at 6:18 PM

KZNSeagull said:
Because the government made it a key item in the budget and people are presumably paying attention. No point protesting when people aren't listening.

Eh? Isn't one of the points of protest to get people to listen?

LamieRobertson · Tuesday at 6:19 PM

keaton said:
Yes but I think the point they don't seem to have protested or done much until now

there’s always a tipping point?

hans kraay fan club · Tuesday at 6:20 PM

Herr Tubthumper said:
By “little to no complaint” I am talking in the context of now and I was speaking relatively and figuratively. My feeling is that there has been little to no complain relative to the mobilizing which is happening at the moment. If this was not clear from my initial post then fair enough. I hope it is now.

The reality is that @Bozza is right that the (actual) farmers were already dissatisfied, and you are also right that the scale of protest is only now evident.

The real difference is the right-dominated press and social media, jumping on a handy bandwagon to amplify it all.

dazzer6666 · Tuesday at 6:20 PM

Herr Tubthumper said:
By “little to no complaint” I am talking in the context of now and I was speaking relatively and figuratively. My feeling is that there has been little to no complain relative to the mobilizing which is happening at the moment. If this was not clear from my initial post then fair enough. I hope it is now.

The other issues have drip-fed over years and gradually accumulated…….this is a single issue, big hit by a new government so presents an opportunity for the revolting farmers. Pretty simple really.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Tuesday at 6:25 PM

Bozza said:
He said that there had been "with little to no complaint " when there has been plenty.

Of course, whilst some people can and will pay more for their food and produce, many can't - they don't have the luxury of being able to spend more than they need to - so sympathy from the wider public has been difficult to obtain.

The supermarket chains drive down prices they pay producers so that consumers pay less in their stores. And that makes most people happy.

Apologies. I missed the bit about little or no complaint. Still, in relative terms the complaint does not map to the million-man convoy to Parliament that was being celebrated on the radio this morning (and all day, in fact), triggered by those pesky socialists. It is a mild grumble by comparison.

That aside, you raise another interesting point. The seemingly traditional and never-ending turbulence between supermarkets and farmers is baffling. I find it odd that farmers have engaged as they have for decades, orienting their business towards a buyer (the multinational supermarkets) who plays fast and loose with market forces to minimize their costs. I would have thought that farmers nationwide ought to be able to direct all their produce to their own outlets if they are that fed up with supermarkets....

(I note that here were no supermarkets when I was a kid in the 60s. "Keymrkets" on Boundary road doesn't count. Why did farmers fuel their nascent growth if they didn't see there might be a drink in it?)

Macknade was just a shed when I moved to Faversham 35 years ago. They have gradually enlarged their business by selling quality. I don't see why that business model can't be upscaled a bit and in time the farmers could tell the supermarkets to f*** off.

My guess however is that too many of them are 'traditional' and frankly lazy and old fashioned. Happy to spray DDT on everything in the 60s, and chop down hedges and gas badger in the 80s and 90s.

I think Britain's farmers need to sort themselves out a bit. Listening to them bragging how they work 8 days a week for a pittance, because they love the land, today, was pitiful. Too many of them have lived on subsidies and sweetheart arrangements made with Thatcher in the 80s for too long, their eyes on the soil and the simplicity of their lives, (which they hope to be immutable) rather than the horizon.

clapham_gull · Tuesday at 6:26 PM

Am I correct in believing that there are two values for a "farmhouse" when inheritance tax is applied ?

Market value and agricultural value which is usually significantly lower ?

Got me thinking about our family house that was next door to the family firm. That definitely only has a single value when inheritance tax is applied.

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