[Albion] Oh Pep

Han Solo · Nov 19, 2024

Nobby said:
They are facts though. He’s never managed a team trying to get promotion on a low budget, or a team fighting relegation on no budget.
He’s been given a job with the best team in the world then beggared off, then a job with the best team in Germany and won beggar all, then a job with the richest club in the World
Which bit of that is tripe?
Plus he’s a tosser demonstrated when he lambasted our young centre back for two minutes because he couldn’t manage his billionaires to win against a team like Brighton
Have a lovely day Nick

Another set of "facts" is that he's arguably the most successful big team-manager of all time.

Winning leagues with Barca, Bayern and Manchester City is easy, just like its easy to win the league with Real Madrid, Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool or Chelsea. Yet he's been doing that quite a lot more than other managers at big clubs. He's been tested against clubs with similar sizes and similar budgets and more often than not ended up with the title.

jcdenton08 · Nov 19, 2024

Yeah, he’s a brilliant coach - one of if not the best of all time. True he’s always had world class players, but so have the other teams he’s been playing against and he just keeps doing it where others fail.

Like many greats he’s a very sore loser sometimes, which he’s not used to, and I wasn’t impressed with his antics with JPVH but it doesn’t change not just his incredible record, but the style of football he has developed and introduced while winning everything

South Stand Bonfire · Nov 19, 2024

Braggfan said:
Anyone remember when Foden fell over last year, and then appealed for a freekick, which he then scored from? Pep wasn't telling him to stay on his feet.

Was that when he clearly slipped? I don't recall Foden holding his hand up saying it was a slip to the ref either!

Justice · Nov 19, 2024

He still makes mistakes like any other coach, letting Palmer leave for £40m wasn’t the smartest move he’s probably worth £100m at this present time.
He has sucked the flair out of Sock boy who’s now a one paced one pass average player and would struggle to get into our squad at present. Whatever you think of Grealish he was a classy player before joining City.

Light_Bulb · Nov 19, 2024

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point City come knocking for JPVH. Pep's 'rant' struck me as less 'sour-grapes' and more 'see how I could help improve your game'.

Psychological shrewdness perhaps.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Nov 19, 2024

Justice said:
He still makes mistakes like any other coach, letting Palmer leave for £40m wasn’t the smartest move he’s probably worth £100m at this present time.
He has sucked the flair out of Sock boy who’s now a one paced one pass average player and would struggle to get into our squad at present. Whatever you think of Grealish he was a classy player before joining City.

Interesting points. I certainly agree wrt sock boy. As for Mr Handsome, maybe being a bit of a nob will help him succeed at Chelsea (if he is a bit of a nob - I have not seen any reason to suspect he is, but I just do) whereas maybe he was insufficiently teamish for Citeh. In fact that's part of why he left Citeh was it not?

Not sure Id bother mentioning either mistakes to Pep, were I sharing the front seat of a bus with him, though. :ohmy:

Braggfan · Nov 19, 2024

South Stand Bonfire said:
Was that when he clearly slipped? I don't recall Foden holding his hand up saying it was a slip to the ref either!

Yeah he slipped and then appealed to the ref for a foul, which he got and then scored from the free kick.

Jeremiah · Nov 19, 2024

Sarisbury Seagull said:
Excellent post.

Except I would say he is THE greatest manager/coach of all time.

I'd say Clough for what he did at Forest.

FCB · Nov 19, 2024

Oh yeah, Pep can definitely be c*ntish, his interviews also come out dishonest at times. He's probably not an easy person to deal with every day and some of his former players will tell you that. Most of them (like Ibra or Eto'o) also have big egos though so no wonder they didn't get along.

So I fully understand why people dislike him. Tbf I'm pretty lukewarm to him since he left Barca, I just don't care enough about either Bayern or City to follow him there regularly or give much importance if they win or lose. Was still glad when he finally won CL with City and prove he can do it without Messi but mostly because it prevented Madrid to win another trophy. All that said I would still love to meet him and talk football all day long. He just lives and thinks football 24/7 and probably forgot more about the game than I will ever know.

I would also say with him chasing that CL win for so long his football became too "robotic" and sometimes boring. He's not as daring and innovative anymore as when he was younger but maybe that just comes with experience. Life is also more fun when you are younger and more stupid/naive. Other managers either try to replicate what he's doing with different level of success or find ways to stop him.

One thing I will never question is his managerial brilliance. Ofc he makes mistakes like all of us (and yes, Palmer mentioned above is one of those) but just because he didn't build up his career like 99,9% of managers it shouldn't take anything away from what he's done. If you start at the top and win everything you don't go to a midtable club or even a lower league just to prove you can do it there too. Nobody in his right mind would do that in his position.

You only make that step back if you have to rebuild your career. Like Xavi will have to do now. Or like OGS or Pirlo who also didn't met expectations at United and Juve respectively. Pirlo has meanwhile already been sacked by two more clubs (in Turkey and last at Sampdoria few months ago) and Solskjaer hasn't managed a team since United (no idea if there was no interest or if he's just waiting for the right job that might never come for him) so it's unlikely either of them will ever make it back to that level or even a step below that. They were great players but just lack something to make it as managers too.

And we'll see what Xavi's next club will be. I hope he'll be ambitious and at the same time self-critical enough to take a job in a solid club in a top 5 league (will probably wait until summer which is fair enough) rather than go back to Qatar. I know he enjoyed life there but can't really develop much as a manager.

Bold Seagull · Nov 19, 2024

Sarisbury Seagull said:
Excellent post.

Except I would say he is THE greatest manager/coach of all time.

Not so sure he is THE greatest.

In his time managing Barcelona, 2008-2012, Spain won the Euros 2008 and 2012 and the World Cup in 2010. It was an exceptional batch of players, of which Barcelona had a tidy number of them +Messi.

At Bayern, 2013-16, Germany won the World Cup in 2014, Euro semis 2012 and 2016, another exceptional batch of German players most of which from that Bayern side.

Mancini and Pellegrini both also won titles at City, Pep joined an already winning titles machine.

I wonder if he didn't have the abundance of talent in a squad, whether he might be a bit RDZ? Has he just been very fortunate to have come through at Barcelona at exactly the right time?

Sarisbury Seagull · Nov 19, 2024

Bold Seagull said:
Not so sure he is THE greatest.

In his time managing Barcelona, 2008-2012, Spain won the Euros 2008 and 2012 and the World Cup in 2010. It was an exceptional batch of players, of which Barcelona had a tidy number of them +Messi.

At Bayern, 2013-16, Germany won the World Cup in 2014, Euro semis 2012 and 2016, another exceptional batch of German players most of which from that Bayern side.

Mancini and Pellegrini both also won titles at City, Pep joined an already winning titles machine.

I wonder if he didn't have the abundance of talent in a squad, whether he might be a bit RDZ? Has he just been very fortunate to have come through at Barcelona at exactly the right time?

I'm less interested in what he's won and where, although he has obviously still won a LOT.

But no manager has had a greater influence on the way football is played around the world. For a start, we would not have enjoyed the football we watched in an old athletics stadium in the third division of English football in 2010/2011 without Pep. He completely changed the way the game was played and nearly every coach in every country followed suit. He cemented his greatness by being able to adapt and change his teams to suit the league they were playing in in Germany and England and still completely dominate domestically whilst playing the best football seen in those countries.

Only Michels, Cruyff and Sacchi come close to his greatness IMO.

hans kraay fan club · Nov 19, 2024

Bold Seagull said:
In his time managing Barcelona, 2008-2012, Spain won the Euros 2008 and 2012 and the World Cup in 2010.

There are two ways to look at that.

You are suggesting that Pep was 'lucky' to enjoy the services of Spain's great midfield triangle, of Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.

One might equally argue that Spain were lucky that the three of them were playing together and learning from Pep on a daily basis.

Bold Seagull · Nov 19, 2024

hans kraay fan club said:
There are two ways to look at that.

You are suggesting that Pep was 'lucky' to enjoy the services of Spain's great midfield triangle, of Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.

One might equally argue that Spain were lucky that the three of them were playing together and learning from Pep on a daily basis.

Spain won the 2008 Euros before Pep took over the Barca first team, so not sure you can equally argue on that one.

US Seagull · Nov 19, 2024

New contract for the Temu Ten Hag

Weststander · Nov 19, 2024

Han Solo said:
Another set of "facts" is that he's arguably the most successful big team-manager of all time.

Winning leagues with Barca, Bayern and Manchester City is easy, just like its easy to win the league with Real Madrid, Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool or Chelsea. Yet he's been doing that quite a lot more than other managers at big clubs. He's been tested against clubs with similar sizes and similar budgets and more often than not ended up with the title.

Bayern had a vastly greater budget than any club in Germany, ManC a far larger budget than Liverpool and Arsenal (plus the hidden, illegal player budget in Project Longbow).

You got likes for getting your facts wrong.

It’s a minor miracle when anyone else wins the league in Germany or England. ManC are cheats.

Only the 11 year top to bottom car crash of ManU have spent the same. Whilst Chelsea have only just matched them (with young players).

Han Solo · Nov 20, 2024

Weststander said:
Bayern had a vastly greater budget than any club in Germany, ManC a far larger budget than Liverpool and Arsenal (plus the hidden, illegal player budget in Project Longbow).

You got likes for getting your facts wrong.

It’s a minor miracle when anyone else wins the league in Germany or England. ManC are cheats.

Only the 11 year top to bottom car crash of ManU have spent the same. Whilst Chelsea have only just matched them (with young players).

Bayern certainly is what it is. Their last ~30-40 managers had a bigger budget than everyone else. Yet if Pep said, "I want to go to Bayern", they'd teleport him to Munich.

Manchester City paying a lot more wages than everyone else is not mainly the reason for why they had success - it is mainly a consequence of it. They're negotiating contracts with 23 winners, whereas everyone else is negotiating with people who haven't got the job done.

Contract negotiations at City?
"Aymeric Laporte, won the league every year, give me all the money I want."

Contracts negotiations at Spurs?
"I'm Eric Dier, just like our trophy room and my wage demands."

It costs money to run a team of winners.

Also easy to forget why people rate Pep in the first place:

Winning the Champions League with a team where 11 out of 18 players were youth academy products and some of the other budget signings like Affelay and Keita. When he took over it was just Ronaldinhos fat party gang.

This is Pep Guardiola telling Sir Alex Ferguson "time to go into retirement my man; and after that, if you stick around too long, you'll be crying yourself to sleep":

Sid and the Sharknados · Nov 20, 2024

Han Solo said:
Bayern certainly is what it is. Their last ~30-40 managers had a bigger budget than everyone else. Yet if Pep said, "I want to go to Bayern", they'd teleport him to Munich.

Manchester City paying a lot more wages than everyone else is not mainly the reason for why they had success - it is mainly a consequence of it. They're negotiating contracts with 23 winners, whereas everyone else is negotiating with people who haven't got the job done.

Contract negotiations at City?
"Aymeric Laporte, won the league every year, give me all the money I want."

Contracts negotiations at Spurs?
"I'm Eric Dier, just like our trophy room and my wage demands."

It costs money to run a team of winners.
Also easy to forget why people rate Pep in the first place:

Winning the Champions League with a team where 11 out of 18 players were youth academy products and some of the other budget signings like Affelay and Keita. When he took over it was just Ronaldinhos fat party gang.

This is Pep Guardiola telling Sir Alex Ferguson "time to go into retirement my man; and after that, if you stick around too long, you'll be crying yourself to sleep":

You remember Man City before they had huge piles of money (and were blatantly cheating the system)? They wouldn't be anywhere near where they are without having thrown money at it both before and since Guardiola joined there.

Nobody (or at least nobody worth listening to) would argue against Guardiola being a great manager of great players, who gets fantastic teams to perform at astonishing levels over an extended period of time. He's the best in the world at it. But throwing around the "team full of youth players" thing as if he took Barnstoneworth United's reserves to the top of Europe won't convince anybody who has the wherewithal to actually look at Barcelona's lineup for that final.

Weststander · Nov 20, 2024

Han Solo said:
Bayern certainly is what it is. Their last ~30-40 managers had a bigger budget than everyone else. Yet if Pep said, "I want to go to Bayern", they'd teleport him to Munich.

Manchester City paying a lot more wages than everyone else is not mainly the reason for why they had success - it is mainly a consequence of it. They're negotiating contracts with 23 winners, whereas everyone else is negotiating with people who haven't got the job done.

Contract negotiations at City?
"Aymeric Laporte, won the league every year, give me all the money I want."

Contracts negotiations at Spurs?
"I'm Eric Dier, just like our trophy room and my wage demands."

It costs money to run a team of winners.

Also easy to forget why people rate Pep in the first place:

Winning the Champions League with a team where 11 out of 18 players were youth academy products and some of the other budget signings like Affelay and Keita. When he took over it was just Ronaldinhos fat party gang.

This is Pep Guardiola telling Sir Alex Ferguson "time to go into retirement my man; and after that, if you stick around too long, you'll be crying yourself to sleep":

Even with their disclosed numbers, ManC operated on another financial level to the likes of Liverpool etc. Giving them cover for injuries with highly rated players. A couple of key injuries to the others at any time in the season and its season over.

Nobby Nomates · Nov 20, 2024

I seem to recall when we played them in our first PL season they brought on subs who had cost more than our stadium....

Weststander · Nov 20, 2024

Remember, they only later got away with this industrial level of cheating because it was ruled UEFA were time barred.

Manchester City And The Fight Against Financial Fairplay

A phony, multimillion-pound deal and behind-the-scenes lobbying: Before the introduction of the new Financial Fair Play rules, Manchester City did all it could to dodge spending regulations. The club insisted to UEFA it was innocent.

www.spiegel.de

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