Agreed BUT the government are arguing that they absolutely NEED this extra money.
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[News] Farmers
- Thread starter Harry Wilson's tackle
- Start date
Average age of a farmer in this country is 59, 33% are over 65. Most work every day of the year, long hours, most well below minimum wage and many on their own.
Just from my experience when I farmed, I made about £25 profit per pig and £18 per lamb.
There's already a crisis in farming in getting young people to work the land. Those that do inherit the family farm, where margins are so low will now be put under further financial pressure. Easy for these townies to say sell some of your land then not understanding that all the land is needed just to scrape a living.
To suddenly change the rules doesn't leave the average farmer of 59 to plan for the farms future.
At a time when we all should be looking for local sourced food this government is putting a lot of these businesses under huge pressure.
It is without doubt a very damaging policy.
When people on the radio or TV bang on about Clarkson are totally missing the point and also not listening to what he says. He, to many is just a millionaire idiot. He does though highlight the very issue faced by many many farmers. The red tape, how hard it is to make a profit. He can afford it many can't. He actually does far more good in educating people than say Countryfile that views the countryside as honey and milk.
Sorry HWT you are very wrong.
BBC have done a fact check on how many farms and how much they may have to pay, make of it as you will.
How many farms would be affected by Budget changes?
Estimates of the number of farms affected range from 100 to 70,000.
www.bbc.co.uk
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,750
In the same way most people can pass on £1m tax free before IHT, Farmers have special dispensation whereby they can pass on £3M before tax. And, on the remainder, instead of paying 40% tax, they have a special dispensation whereby they only pay 20% tax. So, on £5M it would be approx £400,000 which due to the further special dispensation to pay over 10 years, ends up at c40K pa, and that's before their accountants and standard business practices get hold of it.
My kids, in a similar situation, but me not being a farmer would have to pay £1.6M immediately
Ahem ... £7M
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Peacehaven Wild Kids
Well-known member
If he passes it on then provision needs to be made otherwise it’s a massive tax dodge that the majority of this country are crying out against.
Please detail these mitigations you speak of.
Weststander
Well-known member
The rest of Europe don't charge VAT on school fees, it's a mandatory EU block, because it's education. Private included.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Precisely the reason so many estates have been bought by your Clarkson's with a view of avoiding IHT. I don't remember anyone posting that the IHT exception has created the exact same concern you have for food security. Farmer sells to investor for IHT saving purposes vs farmer sells because of IHT liability. Same difference if you're concerned about retention of farms from investors and big business.
A very simplistic view
Do your assets produce anything for the wellbeing of the public ? Like providing food ?My kids, in a similar situation, but me not being a farmer would have to pay £1.6M immediately
Since1982
Well-known member
I do understand that its not easy to suddenly pay an IHT bill if your wealth is all tied up in land that is by definition hard to get at. That poses an issue for some older farmers when the new rules come in and possibly needs further thought by the govt. I know a couple a farmers and its a reasonable concern, and more complex for those who farm on land in the national park as there are more hurdles to jump over before disposing of or changing the use of land. For others it is about sensible IHT tax planning - using life insurance, gifting assets - exactly the same as it is for anyone else impacted by IHT although of course there will be considerable additional mitigations available to farmers not available to the rest of the population. And I'd have a great deal more sympathy for them as a whole if they hadn't been largely pro Brexit - the economic damage by that decision has to be paid for and I fail to see why they should be exempt from the consequences.
- Thread starter
- #52
I was much worse 20 years ago.
Anyway, I am not remotely angry. I am raising an eyebrow at the gormless entitlement I am hearing on the radio.
"I am going to have to talk to my accountant now" was a recent comment on the phone in. Shocking scenes.
Look, nobody likes change. But hiring a bus to drive to parliament is a bit entitled in my view. And apparently farmers did used to pay inheritance tax, till Thatcher made them exempt in the 1980s. Ooo arr, that be your Maggie.
And there is a national radio phone in on it, so..... if I'm fishing I seem to have caught another tiddler.
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Weststander
Well-known member
This will pan out over time.
Nicky Campbell's phone in, in 5 years time will be the demise of UK farming and a lack of food security from greater imports.
keaton
Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
- Nov 18, 2004
- 9,972
You've been backing Tory and Brexit for years it's a bit late to start caring about British farmers now
Weststander
Well-known member
That's a spite aspect. And many farmers were pro EU.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
If your family are working and stand to take over the farm, pass on assets to them as they progress while you're alive. Consider whether an LLP or Ltd is a better model over sole trader for the farm business model. If you get to live into old age, then you've not given any assets to your children for working the farm their entire lives??
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,892
If you pass your house and capital on to the kids, they may have to pay inheritance tax. The difference is that the house is a liquid asset.In the same way most people can pass on £1m tax free before IHT, Farmers have special dispensation whereby they can pass on £3M before tax. And, on the remainder, instead of paying 40% tax, they have a special dispensation whereby they only pay 20% tax. So, on £5M it would be approx £400,000 which due to the further special dispensation to pay over 10 years, ends up at c40K pa, before their accountants get hold of it.
My kids, in a similar situation, but me not being a farmer would have to pay £1.6M immediately
If I'm a farmer's son, working that farm, and I inherit it, I do not have a liquid asset if I wish to maintain the business. Thus I could be landed a bill of £1m with no loose capital to pay it. The only choice I may have would be to sell the farm.
I'm not saying their shouldn't be a levy, I'm just saying this needs to be thought through. The farmer's have a point.
Government say 20percent of farmers will be affect NFU say about 60 percent, I am sure the truth is somewhere in between
Reed and Starmer said pre election there would be no tax rise or change, so I get why the Farmers would be upset
Reed and Starmer said pre election there would be no tax rise or change, so I get why the Farmers would be upset
But all the owners have to do is give their farms to their kids and the tax is avoided
- Thread starter
- #60
I think they are entitled to engage with this, of course, but there is a strong whiff of entitlement from some of them.Clearly Harry you don't have any farmers in your family. I do and I can assure you it's not an easy existence - they get a pittance in 'profit' and their pay is far less than some townie medical lecturer with a gold plated pension
Yes I have a good pension but if I wanted to pass on a million pound property (I don't have a million pound property, by the way) I would be clobbered in tax. What the farmers are being asked to pay is a fraction of that.
I simply can't see London's finest flocking to support these people today when they rock up to protest. It is about proportion and perspective. If there is grievance then negotiate.
(and before I'm accused of some sort of left wing nonsense, I was deeply mocking of my own (former) union when some of the picket line stood grinning with Jeremy Corbyn a couple of years ago. A total
moment)