[Technology] Electric Car advice

A mex eyecan said:

aside from my Mrs allergies to dogs, the amount of times you hear of people allowing their dogs to sleep in beds with them quite frankly is enough to stop me wanting to use a bed after them, sheets changed or not ….

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Many of them don't allow pets.

Greg Bobkin said:

If you've got off-street parking at the property, just plug it into the mains. Depends how far you'll be venturing, but a trickle charge overnight/when you get back will add more miles than you might think.

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Quite a lot of these cottage rentals don't allow car charging. Electricity tends to be included and I presume the car charging bumps up the usage too much.

Randy McNob said:

Not neccesarily, They price electric cars factoring in the monthly running costs, thats why they are more expensive than ICE equivalents

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How do you work that out ?? Mine costs less than £5 to charge at home for 250 miles range.

swindonseagull said:

How do you work that out ?? Mine costs less than £5 to charge at home for 250 miles range.

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I believe the costs for fast charging away from home are more expensive than refuelling an ICE vehicle - old link, no idea if anything has changed:

nsclurker said:

My 2006 5.2L V10 S8 is now over £800...

Qualifies for LEZ & ULEZ, though, which is a bonus.

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I have a 2010 ML which is currently £710 and isn't ULEZ friendly...utterly bonkers.

Randy McNob said:

Not neccesarily, They price electric cars factoring in the monthly running costs, thats why they are more expensive than ICE equivalents

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This might well be true in the new car market. But the used electric car market has some astonishing bargains. I’m looking at getting a 5 year old E-Tron, essentially the same model but with a turbo diesel engine is £12k more.

Hugo Rune said:

This might well be true in the new car market. But the used electric car market has some astonishing bargains. I’m looking at getting a 5 year old E-Tron, essentially the same model but with a turbo diesel engine is £12k more.

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the fact that EV are so much cheaper than ICE would concern me. If they’re better why cheaper? I’d be worried it will be driven by concern over battery degradation and the huge expense of replacement.

A mex eyecan said:

the fact that EV are so much cheaper than ICE would concern me. If they’re better why cheaper? I’d be worried it will be driven by concern over battery degradation and the huge expense of replacement.

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Indeed.

The new car market for EVs seems to be holding up well. Now around 16.5% of all new car sales:



But you need to look at the people buying EVs to work out why used EV sales are sluggish and why they depreciate so much. In short, it’s about home charging. Simply put, those with access to a drive or garage where a charger can be installed are more likely to be the sort of folk who buy new cars, not used cards. The vast majority of used car buyers are looking for a ICE. Even used PHEV are more expensive than EVs now.

The belief that battery life is an issue might have a affect but a little research will show you that it’s completely unwarranted.

A mex eyecan said:

the fact that EV are so much cheaper than ICE would concern me. If they’re better why cheaper? I’d be worried it will be driven by concern over battery degradation and the huge expense of replacement.

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The main reason they are cheaper is that the government (the Tory one, though don't expect Labour to repeal it) introduced a law that said a certain percentage of each manufacturer's sales must be electric, with fines running into thousands per vehicle if they don't. It distorts the market hugely. If organic demand is low, then they have to drop the price (and increase the price of petrol cars) to get the sales proportions right.

Battery replacement doesn't seem to be an issue from what I have heard. Though, of course, the technology is improving all the time, which by definition means that the older electric vehicles are getting more and more out of date. As long as they still work, that's not a problem - if they stop working, repair could be expensive.

dsr-burnley said:

The main reason they are cheaper is that the government (the Tory one, though don't expect Labour to repeal it) introduced a law that said a certain percentage of each manufacturer's sales must be electric, with fines running into thousands per vehicle if they don't. It distorts the market hugely. If organic demand is low, then they have to drop the price (and increase the price of petrol cars) to get the sales proportions right.

Battery replacement doesn't seem to be an issue from what I have heard. Though, of course, the technology is improving all the time, which by definition means that the older electric vehicles are getting more and more out of date. As long as they still work, that's not a problem - if they stop working, repair could be expensive

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But new EVs ARE more expensive than petrol. For example, a new petrol MG SUV EV is £25k, the EV version £30.5k and the hybrid £31.5k.

However, they are cheaper used. For a ‘21 MG SUV, (around £11k -£14k), you are looking at a premium of £1,500 more for the petrol version in comparison to the EV. Price differences in other brands can be even more stark.

Are you saying that used EV prices are affected by the fact manufactures have to produce a certain percentage sales as EV sales? Where is the logic? People are still buying new EVs, and that percentage is increasing. Is your argument that consumers opt for a new EV because they can’t obtain the cheaper ICE equivalent? I don’t get it?

There is a huge stigma attached to used EVs primarily due to battery replacement concerns.

Do EVs store any kind of operating data? Can anyone, either a potential buyer or a manufacturer glean any information on how the car has been operated during its life?

This is interesting. It’s about a Tesla that’s done 100k+ mileage. Puts a few myths to bed.

Papak said:

There is a huge stigma attached to used EVs primarily due to battery replacement concerns.

Do EVs store any kind of operating data? Can anyone, either a potential buyer or a manufacturer glean any information on how the car has been operated during its life?

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Depends on make and model. Tesla perform all kinds of funky analytics/data gathering. Once you’ve bought one of their cars, I’m led to believe that you can see its charge history, broken down by supercharging/home charging speeds.

My understanding is that you can’t see it until the car has been bound to your Tesla app, which requires proof of ownership of the vehicle to be provided.

So you can become wise after the event, but not make a purchase decision based on it.

I always make a point of performing a factory reset on any vehicle I’m selling’s nav/infotainment system regardless of engine type, otherwise I’m giving away the contact details of everyone I know, plus my home and work addresses.

Hugo Rune said:

But new EVs ARE more expensive than petrol. For example, a new petrol MG SUV EV is £25k, the EV version £30.5k and the hybrid £31.5k.

However, they are cheaper used. For a ‘21 MG SUV, (around £11k -£14k), you are looking at a premium of £1,500 more for the petrol version in comparison to the EV. Price differences in other brands can be even more stark.

Are you saying that used EV prices are affected by the fact manufactures have to produce a certain percentage sales as EV sales? Where is the logic? People are still buying new EVs, and that percentage is increasing. Is your argument that consumers opt for a new EV because they can’t obtain the cheaper ICE equivalent? I don’t get it?

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If a manufacturer sells too few electric cars then he is fined £15,000 per vehicle. He has to sell electric cars no matter what. If he sells too few electric cars relative to petrol cars, he has to discount the electric ones as a loss leader to avoid swingeing penalties.

For example, if his target is 20 electric cars out of 100 total car sales. To make the same profit on each, perhaps the electric one would be £35k and the petrol £25k. Total income £2.7m.

But electric sales aren't going well, and he is going to finish 10 cars short. His income will be down at £2.6m but his costs will also be down, so his gross profit hasn't changed much. Except for this penalty - he should have sold 22 electric cars for his 90 petrol cars, so he is fined 12 x £15k which is £180k. It's a big hit to his profit.

Far better to discount the electric cars to say £30k, and perhaps sneak the petrol cars up to £26k, so his total income for the 20/80 sales is now £2,680, down a little, but no fine.

chickens said:

So you can become wise after the event, but not make a purchase decision based on it.

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A bit like an ICE then

dsr-burnley said:

If a manufacturer sells too few electric cars then he is fined £15,000 per vehicle. He has to sell electric cars no matter what. If he sells too few electric cars relative to petrol cars, he has to discount the electric ones as a loss leader to avoid swingeing penalties.

For example, if his target is 20 electric cars out of 100 total car sales. To make the same profit on each, perhaps the electric one would be £35k and the petrol £25k. Total income £2.7m.

But electric sales aren't going well, and he is going to finish 10 cars short. His income will be down at £2.6m but his costs will also be down, so his gross profit hasn't changed much. Except for this penalty - he should have sold 22 electric cars for his 90 petrol cars, so he is fined 12 x £15k which is £180k. It's a big hit to his profit.

Far better to discount the electric cars to say £30k, and perhaps sneak the petrol cars up to £26k, so his total income for the 20/80 sales is now £2,680, down a little, but no fine.

Firms still forced to sell more electric cars despite petrol ban delay

Car makers will still have to ensure over a fifth of cars sold are electric from 2024.

www.bbc.co.uk

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I'm sure I read somewhere that some car makers (Aston Martin possibly?) are just going to add the fine to the cost of their ICE cars and not bother with EVs.

dsr-burnley said:

If a manufacturer sells too few electric cars then he is fined £15,000 per vehicle. He has to sell electric cars no matter what. If he sells too few electric cars relative to petrol cars, he has to discount the electric ones as a loss leader to avoid swingeing penalties.

For example, if his target is 20 electric cars out of 100 total car sales. To make the same profit on each, perhaps the electric one would be £35k and the petrol £25k. Total income £2.7m.

But electric sales aren't going well, and he is going to finish 10 cars short. His income will be down at £2.6m but his costs will also be down, so his gross profit hasn't changed much. Except for this penalty - he should have sold 22 electric cars for his 90 petrol cars, so he is fined 12 x £15k which is £180k. It's a big hit to his profit.

Far better to discount the electric cars to say £30k, and perhaps sneak the petrol cars up to £26k, so his total income for the 20/80 sales is now £2,680, down a little, but no fine.

Firms still forced to sell more electric cars despite petrol ban delay

Car makers will still have to ensure over a fifth of cars sold are electric from 2024.

www.bbc.co.uk

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so how does doing that mean 2nd hand EV prices have collapse?

A mex eyecan said:

so how does doing that mean 2nd hand EV prices have collapse?

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I'm sure there are various reasons for the second hand market collapsing.

1. If new electric car prices are forced down by government policy, then second hand prices drop as well. It's universal that when new prices of any product drop, the second version becomes less attractive unless its price drops too.

2. Technology is improving. Possibly the second hand price drops faster because they reach obsolescence faster than petrol cars.

3. Many people on here have quoted that they would only buy an electric car on lease or because their company is buying it for them. Second hand cars are not as often bought on lease and very rarely bought as company cars, so a lot of the market for new electric cars isn't buying second hand ones.

4. Think of your own. There must be plenty.

Pinched this from FB. Amused me...

Thinking of replacing my electric car with a fossil fuel car and have some questions?

1. I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Will there be a solution for refuelling at home?
2. Which parts will I need to service and how often? The car salesman mentioned oil in the engine and timing belts that need replacing and a box with gears in it. What is this? How much will this service oil change cost and how often – and what happens to the old oil. Also apparently these petrol type cars generally stop on the brakes alone – so the brakes wear out much faster – how long will they last compared to my current car which lasts over 100k miles
3. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill?
4. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?
5. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 8 times as much. Is this true?
6. Is it true that petrol is flammable?
7. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution?
8. I have also been told that you have to transport oil all over the world to turn into petrol or diesel, and these ships have in the past damaged the environment by leaking the oil.
9. I have heard that cars with internal combustion engines are being banned to enter more and more cities around the world, as it is claimed that they tend to harm the environment and health of their citizens? Is that true?
10. I have been told that these internal combustion engines make a noise when you start them – so early starts can wake people up, and driving a lot of internal combustion engine cars in towns makes towns noisy.
11. is it true people can steal the fuel from your tank
12. what is the drop in range in cold weather, I've been told a car that does 45mpg can drop to 37 mpg in winter – just curious on that one.
13. a friend told me that the exhausts wear out – is that true, and people steal them for the rare material used in them
14. I was also told – that the exhaust gas isn’t good for you – and if you leave the car running in a confined space – like a garage – you will die – surly that isn’t true is it.
15. next door told me – these petrol cars – carry around 40 to 60 litres of highly flammable liquid which is pumped into a steel cylinder, and its then exploded to generate expanding gas to move a piston, and turn linear motion into rotary motion.
Why would anyone want thousands of explosions happening within a few feet of where your sitting.
16. a guy at work told me – he has a petrol car, and it leaks oil. When he parks it – surely that’s not right is it – leaving dirty marks on the floor and contaminating the environment so directly. How long before this happens if I change.
17. my dad told me – if you buy a diesel car – the hand pump smells very bad, and you have to wear special gloves to stop your hand smelling, and if you spill it on your clothes it terrible.
18. is it true – the petrol and diesel is so dangerous, that you can only buy the fuel at a special filling station, and not anywhere (hotels/Car parks/Home/Work)
19. while technology is advancing, will I ever be able to refuel my internal combustion car for free using only the sun ?

At least I won't have to worry about using the "wrong type of electricity". AC or DC, always confuses me.

Hugo Rune said:

This is interesting. It’s about a Tesla that’s done 100k+ mileage. Puts a few myths to bed.

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Its pretty cheap motoring if you have a home charger really...