[Football] Harry Kane - England must come before club.

hart's shirt · Wednesday at 8:46 PM

Might be worth pointing out here that if England were to win the group, the next Nations League game they'd have would be in September 2026.

2025 will be taken up with qualifiers for the World Cup, the draw for which will be made a month today - 13th December.

So as frustrating as it may be, it'll all be over in 4 days time...if they finish top.

Were England to finish 2nd, it's a 2 legged promotion playoff in March 2025 against one of Poland, Belgium, Serbia or Netherlands/Hungary.

So there's a bit riding on the next few days, if only a slightly reduced international fixture list next year.

AZ Gull · Wednesday at 9:18 PM

hart's shirt said:
...

Were England to finish 2nd, it's a 2 legged promotion playoff in March 2025 against one of Poland, Belgium, Serbia or Netherlands/Hungary.

So there's a bit riding on the next few days, if only a slightly reduced international fixture list next year.

Nations will play fixtures during each international break irrespective of whether the matches are "competitive" fixtures or friendlies. England will have a couple of fixtures in March 2025 no matter what.

PILTDOWN MAN · Wednesday at 9:24 PM

hart's shirt said:
We've beaten City before at the Amex in the Premier League. It was great last time and equally as enjoyable this time. But it's still domestic local success that means little to nothing outside the support of our specific team.

There's no comparison between that and the collective way the country including the fans of all the teams gets behind the national side in tournaments.

I will agree with you that it's annoying stopping for Nations League games, especially after a victory. But if we hadn't been relegated, the opposition would've been stronger and the games more attractive.

It's tempting for supporters of clubs who've made it to the promised land of the Premier League to start believing that success there trumps everything and that there's nothing better. But an international tournament win would beat all of this.

See how the Lionesses Euros win brought joy and increased the support. Now multiply that by many times and you'll be close for the men.

But I'm happy to agree to disagree with you here. As a sentimental purist, I'll admit that I'm not likely to change my mind on England any time soon.

Equally as enjoyable this time? Are you mad? Haha
when Brighton win I’m surrounded by likeminded fans. Watching England especially in a pub surrounded by many wearing their England top having taken their Utd/ Arsenal/ Liverpool for the day makes my blood run cold. These days if I could be bothered I watch at home.

Eeyore · Wednesday at 9:27 PM

Can I ask. If Albion were still in Division 3, thus playing this weekend, would this still be the attitude to international football ?

I used to say country before club, and many folks moaned at Manchester United. Nowadays, I'm 'meh'.

Driver8 · Wednesday at 9:29 PM

hart's shirt said:
We've beaten City before at the Amex in the Premier League. It was great last time and equally as enjoyable this time. But it's still domestic local success that means little to nothing outside the support of our specific team.

There's no comparison between that and the collective way the country including the fans of all the teams gets behind the national side in tournaments.

I will agree with you that it's annoying stopping for Nations League games, especially after a victory. But if we hadn't been relegated, the opposition would've been stronger and the games more attractive.

It's tempting for supporters of clubs who've made it to the promised land of the Premier League to start believing that success there trumps everything and that there's nothing better. But an international tournament win would beat all of this.

See how the Lionesses Euros win brought joy and increased the support. Now multiply that by many times and you'll be close for the men.

But I'm happy to agree to disagree with you here. As a sentimental purist, I'll admit that I'm not likely to change my mind on England any time soon.

Personally if I was given a choice between Albion qualifying for European competition again this season and England winning a trophy it’s Albion every time.

Herr Tubthumper · Wednesday at 9:31 PM

Didn’t even realize England were playing etc etc .

hart's shirt · Wednesday at 9:52 PM

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Equally as enjoyable this time? Are you mad? Haha
when Brighton win I’m surrounded by likeminded fans. Watching England especially in a pub surrounded by many wearing their England top having taken their Utd/ Arsenal/ Liverpool for the day makes my blood run cold. These days if I could be bothered I watch at home.

Therein probably lies the issue.

I'm assuming that you're surrounded by likeminded fans in the stadium when Brighton win (or otherwise for that matter).

If you just watch England in the pub, you're not in the same environment. It's not exactly comparing like with like, is it?

And watching at home is watching in isolation away from every other supporter. That's completely different, even worse. No shared joy there.

The match experience that you have has more to do with the environment than you've chosen than anything else.

hart's shirt · Wednesday at 9:59 PM

AZ Gull said:
Nations will play fixtures during each international break irrespective of whether the matches are "competitive" fixtures or friendlies. England will have a couple of fixtures in March 2025 no matter what.

Yes true, little doubt that England would elect to play a couple of friendlies over that international break if that scenario plays out and we finish top.

Choosing different opposition (stronger Group A nations) would be preferable though to having to play the same side twice.

Whilst the amount of football might not change, the standard and variety of opposition probably would.

PILTDOWN MAN · Wednesday at 10:03 PM

hart's shirt said:
Therein probably lies the issue.

I'm assuming that you're surrounded by likeminded fans in the stadium when Brighton win (or otherwise for that matter).

If you just watch England in the pub, you're not in the same environment. It's not exactly comparing like with like, is it?

And watching at home is watching in isolation away from every other supporter. That's completely different, even worse. No shared joy there.

The match experience that you have has more to do with the environment than you've chosen than anything else.

Gave up years ago going to see England. Going to the dentist is more pleasurable.

People say it’s the top of the game etc. it’s not, if England played in the EPL they’d be lucky to qualify for Europe.

hart's shirt · Wednesday at 10:06 PM

Driver8 said:
Personally if I was given a choice between Albion qualifying for European competition again this season and England winning a trophy it’s Albion every time.

Hypothetically speaking, it would be a fantastic choice to have. But what European competition would we be talking about?

Would you choose Albion in the 3rd tier Europa Conference League for one season over an England World Cup win? I wouldn't.

The footballing behemoths of Noah, Larne, Shamrock Rovers, Petrocub and The New Saints might have to wait their turn.

Super Steve Earle · Wednesday at 10:07 PM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I would suggest the opposite. In 1966 hardly anyone cared, and you could have POTG for the final if prepared to queue of half an hour.

I would suggest there is more interest now than there has ever been.

Maybe not so much among the "Ingerland Ingerland, aint no Black in the Union Jack. Ten German bombers, you're gonna get your fuckin' 'ed kicked in" contingent?

That's not true though. My mum sent me out to the local shop at half time in the World Cup final. I clearly remember cycling down Ladies Mile Road to the shops, probably for a quarter of tea or something and Patcham was deserted.

hart's shirt · Wednesday at 10:22 PM

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Gave up years ago going to see England. Going to the dentist is more pleasurable.

People say it’s the top of the game etc. it’s not, if England played in the EPL they’d be lucky to qualify for Europe.

You can blame that on Kane's acci-dental offsides. (Sorry.)

Seriously though, we've got some great young players who've won international tournaments at different age categories. The future's bright.

We've been close before and given the right manager and tactics that favour the players, I think we'll win one sooner or later.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Wednesday at 10:29 PM

Super Steve Earle said:
That's not true though. My mum sent me out to the local shop at half time in the World Cup final. I clearly remember cycling down Ladies Mile Road to the shops, probably for a quarter of tea or something and Patcham was deserted.

Anyone who had a telly was watching it, sure. Waving their union* flags, and saying how topping/smashing/bleedin' marvelous it all was.

Just like we all watched the Coronation and the Grand National. And the boat race. A nation of rowers we were.

But this wasn't real interest and engaged support.

This was more like a very bored population gawping at something. Anything.

Just like there are far more engaged gamblers now (yet with the Grand National no longer day-stopping), there are far more engaged footy fans than back in the day. That includes England fans. In my own case I never took any real interest till 96.

And don't forget, first division (EPL) fans never ever really got hooked on England en mass. Look at all the club banners at the games. they have always been and still are dominated by lower leagues and non league.

It isn't a simple "Loved England till this Nations league bollocks, now I don't care" narrative. Not at all.

*oh the irony.

Green Cross Code Man · Wednesday at 10:30 PM

Eeyore said:
Can I ask. If Albion were still in Division 3, thus playing this weekend, would this still be the attitude to international football ?

I used to say country before club, and many folks moaned at Manchester United. Nowadays, I'm 'meh'.

Probably not as most of us would just carry on and watch the Albion in division 3. When I say most I mean on here. The biggest problem with internationals is that they disrupt the season so many times, I do not like the stop start, and particularly when most football fans I know don't care anymore about internationals. Why can't they just play midweek like they once did?

Eeyore · Wednesday at 11:07 PM

Green Cross Code Man said:
Probably not as most of us would just carry on and watch the Albion in division 3. When I say most I mean on here. The biggest problem with internationals is that they disrupt the season so many times, I do not like the stop start, and particularly when most football fans I know don't care anymore about internationals. Why can't they just play midweek like they once did?

There seems to have been more internationals played outwith the season before. I looked at 1977, a qualification year, and England played one international in March, September and October. No series. The British Championship was post season. That said, qualification groups were smaller. A typical series involving 4-6 matches. It can be as many as 10 these days. Tournaments weren't as big or long. There may lay the answer. No play offs either.

I thought the Nations League was a good idea. I think I was wrong. International football would be better simplified. The Finals don't interest me as much until the business end. Before it was exciting from the start, although in the 70s we didn't have to worry about England.

AZ Gull · 2024-11-14T02:50:05+0000

Eeyore said:
There seems to have been more internationals played outwith the season before. I looked at 1977, a qualification year, and England played one international in March, September and October. No series. The British Championship was post season. That said, qualification groups were smaller. A typical series involving 4-6 matches. It can be as many as 10 these days. Tournaments weren't as big or long. There may lay the answer. No play offs either.

I thought the Nations League was a good idea. I think I was wrong. International football would be better simplified. The Finals don't interest me as much until the business end. Before it was exciting from the start, although in the 70s we didn't have to worry about England.

Not sure what database you were looking at, but it was wrong. England also played matches in February and November 1977 - see here.

Albion my Albion · 2024-11-14T05:30:18+0000

El Turi said:
so I don’t blame the players for pulling out.

That's what she said.

Herr Tubthumper · 2024-11-14T06:49:13+0000

hart's shirt said:
Therein probably lies the issue.

I'm assuming that you're surrounded by likeminded fans in the stadium when Brighton win (or otherwise for that matter).

If you just watch England in the pub, you're not in the same environment. It's not exactly comparing like with like, is it?

And watching at home is watching in isolation away from every other supporter. That's completely different, even worse. No shared joy there.

The match experience that you have has more to do with the environment than you've chosen than anything else.

An England friend of mine recently said the live experience is starting to put him off, home is fine, away is turning into a mass stag-do for many. He said it used to be fun, now it’s full of tedious and boorish lads.

Herr Tubthumper · 2024-11-14T07:16:54+0000

AZ Gull said:
Not sure what database you were looking at, but it was wrong. England also played matches in February and November 1977 - see here.

View attachment 192368

You are correct, but this schedule is a lot less than the current program. It’s only 11 games and 3 are against home nations in one week at the end of the season. England will have played 6 games this weekend and it’s only half way through November.

SeagullsoverLondon · 2024-11-14T07:31:27+0000

Herr Tubthumper said:
You are correct, but this schedule is a lot less than the current program. It’s only 11 games and 3 are against home nations in one week at the end of the season. England will have played 6 games this weekend and it’s only half way through November.

Also with only one midweek international, there were no breaks. Teams played on Saturday 3pm, players went off for International duty Monday morning, and we're back with their teams Thursday, training on Friday, ready for match on Saturday 3pm.
Everyone happy, both club and country.

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