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[Albion] Should Joel Veltman be in the Dutch squad (even if not first choice)?



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sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
4,338
schmunk said:
How is playing against Hungary, or Bosnia & Herzegovina, as the Netherlands will in the next week, any more challenging than playing against (and beating) Man City...?
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I think the issue is that the players ahead of him are better, offering more rounded attributes. It’s fine when we’ll cover his weaknesses, but you can’t do that as easily at Int level when there’s less time to work on the system.

As I say, I love the guy, but he’s a limited footballer.
 




SeagullsoverLondon

SeagullsoverLondon

......
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Jun 20, 2021
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sussex_guy2k2 said:
I think the issue is that the players ahead of him are better, offering more rounded attributes. It’s fine when we’ll cover his weaknesses, but you can’t do that as easily at Int level when there’s less time to work on the system.

As I say, I love the guy, but he’s a limited footballer.
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I know no-one rates that Virgil bloke, but the other Dutch centre halves he'd be playing alongside aren't that bad. 😃
 


C

Coldwaltham Seagull

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2024
133
mothy said:
I'd say Messi is good enough to play for England (if he was english). He could also get into most teams

1v1 - I've seen with my own eyes that he isn't as quick as some other players = my evidence (& opinion)
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Point 1, I can accept I'm just being a bit pendantic because I know what you're getting at.

Point 2, I appreciate your right to an opinion but would counter that whilst not the 'quickest' he is one of, if not the best 1v1 defender at the club. Its not all about pace
 




S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
4,338
Coldwaltham Seagull said:
Point 1, I can accept I'm just being a bit pendantic because I know what you're getting at.

Point 2, I appreciate your right to an opinion but would counter that whilst not the 'quickest' he is one of, if not the best 1v1 defender at the club. Its not all about pace
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It’s absolutely not, but if the Dutch team are stacked with one area of quality, it’s at RB and CB.

It doesn’t mean Velts isn’t class, because he is.

But there’s not a defender in their last squad that he gets in ahead of in either position, because they’re all equally good as him defensively, whilst offering more pace and substantially more quality in the ball.
 




FatSuperman

FatSuperman

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2016
2,929
The real question is the better choice? He can compete in a team taking the fight to the best teams in the toughest league in the world, so he has to be in the discussion. And if the discussion says "but look at all these better players in his position", then fair enough. But on it's own it's irrelevant saying he should or should not be in.
 


FatSuperman

FatSuperman

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Feb 25, 2016
2,929
sussex_guy2k2 said:
It’s absolutely not, but if the Dutch team are stacked with one area of quality, it’s at RB and CB.

It doesn’t mean Velts isn’t class, because he is.

But there’s not a defender in their last squad that he gets in ahead of in either position, because they’re all equally good as him defensively, whilst offering more pace and substantially more quality in the ball.
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I tend to agree with you, but looking forward to you coming back in 18 months when I bounce this thread and point out Joel's 2 Premier League titles and Champions League winners medal :LOL:
 


Stato

Stato

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2011
7,419
Whilst I've no doubt that Joel could currently do a decent job for any international side, I can fully understand why the Dutch wouldn't want to pick him. He's 32 and will be 34 by the next World Cup. Age gets to us all. We're currently witnessing the decline in England's first choice right back. Walker is 34 now and was nowhere near Mitoma for our equaliser and several other chances on Saturday. He wouldn't have been so generous two years ago. If you're building for tournaments two years apart, you have to consider whether to invest your time in players who are the best now, or players who will be the best in two years time. I think it sensible to do the latter. For the same reason, I wouldn't be lobbying Tuchel to call up Danny Welbeck despite his excellent form. Unless international teams have injury issues that need short term experienced replacement, or are without some old heads who can teach standards to the new recruits, I don't see much benefit in selecting players for fixtures of little import only to discard them when the tournaments come around.
 




GT49er

GT49er

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Feb 1, 2009
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Stato said:
Whilst I've no doubt that Joel could currently do a decent job for any international side, I can fully understand why the Dutch wouldn't want to pick him. He's 32 and will be 34 by the next World Cup. Age gets to us all. We're currently witnessing the decline in England's first choice right back. Walker is 34 now and was nowhere near Mitoma for our equaliser and several other chances on Saturday. He wouldn't have been so generous two years ago. If you're building for tournaments two years apart, you have to consider whether to invest your time in players who are the best now, or players who will be the best in two years time. I think it sensible to do the latter. For the same reason, I wouldn't be lobbying Tuchel to call up Danny Welbeck despite his excellent form. Unless international teams have injury issues that need short term experienced replacement, or are without some old heads who can teach standards to the new recruits, I don't see much benefit in selecting players for fixtures of little import only to discard them when the tournaments come around.
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Agree with the gist of this, but would have him in the squad for his knowledge and experience, and above all as an ideal sub to bring on if the team needs to see out a match under pressure.
Re: another poster's point, the idea that he is good enough to play at the top level of the PL, but not good enough to play international football is a bit of a joke; there's plenty of established international footballers out there who won't get near a place in the PL!
 
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S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
4,338
FatSuperman said:
I tend to agree with you, but looking forward to you coming back in 18 months when I bounce this thread and point out Joel's 2 Premier League titles and Champions League winners medal :LOL:
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Me too. But here’s the thing about grown up debate - 2 things can be true at once 😉 I’ve never said he couldn’t be part of our Premier League and Champions League winning defence, although the latter could only happen if his contract is renewed, no?

And as I’ve said, I think he’s great. I just don’t think he gets into that Dutch defence, and nor does their manager (or any of their recent managers).

I’m happy to be proven wrong though, in that regard. Put it in the diary.
 


PILTDOWN MAN

PILTDOWN MAN

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Sep 15, 2004
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As he already appears susceptible to a groin issue, for which I’m sure he isn’t short of offers to help, I sooner he rests up.
 




SeagullinExile

SeagullinExile

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2010
6,207
London
sussex_guy2k2 said:
I’d say no. I love the guy, but he’s neither quick enough nor good enough on the ball to play as a RB or a CB at international level for me.
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Arguably, he plays against better players week in, week out in the PL. Most International matches these days are against far weaker opponents.

Joel would be fine at International level.
 


The Wookiee

The Wookiee

Back From The Dead
Nov 10, 2003
15,450
Worthing
He’s already played 28 times for them - at 32 I can’t see why he wouldn’t be recalled to the squad ?

Who are the current Dutch RB’s that are getting picked ahead of him ?
 






aolstudios

aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
5,410
brighton
Bozza said:
I don't know enough about Dutch right-back options, but one Dutch football journalist has blasted their setup for not recalling him.

www.fcupdate.nl

Süleyman Öztürk snapt niks van scouting Oranje: 'Rensch wel en hij niet? Doek de hele afdeling maar op'

Süleyman Öztürk uit kritiek op de Oranje-scouting nadat Joël Veltman opnieuw ontbreekt in de selectie van Ronald Koeman. Ondanks zijn prestaties bij Brighton & Hove Albion krijgt Devyne Rensch de voorkeur.
www.fcupdate.nl www.fcupdate.nl

Video for those who can speak Dutch...

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I think he had 'words' with Koeman, who replaced him with Dumfries. Who, to be fair is very good. He should be in the squad though. Both Joel & Koeman are known for frank exchanges though, so maybe it's that
 






aolstudios

aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
5,410
brighton
sussex_guy2k2 said:
Me too. But here’s the thing about grown up debate - 2 things can be true at once 😉 I’ve never said he couldn’t be part of our Premier League and Champions League winning defence, although the latter could only happen if his contract is renewed, no?

And as I’ve said, I think he’s great. I just don’t think he gets into that Dutch defence, and nor does their manager (or any of their recent managers).

I’m happy to be proven wrong though, in that regard. Put it in the diary.
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The recent managers gave him 28 caps
 








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