[Politics] Is democracy in crisis?

Professor Plum said:

Whether it’s palatable or not to the more left-leaning here, the fact is that large scale immigration, especially 'illegal' undocumented immigration, is the root cause of this political shift to the right — certainly in Europe. You’ve been told this constantly. Constantly. And you've been told what the political consequences will be to Europe's quasi-open borders policy. And the only response, ever, is to mutter "Racist!" so that it’s now a vital topic that can never be discussed intelligently and dispassionately.

As for the decline of democracy, a major step forward in the UK would be the introduction of some form of proportional representation to at least give the people some semblance of having accountable government. No party should have a massive parliamentary majority based on the support of barely 20% of the electorate and after more than two-thirds of actual voters voted for parties other than them.

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Sid and the Sharknados said:

It is frequently pointed out that the economic consequences of actually cutting immigration would be more unpalatable than allowing it. And people often talk about cutting uncontrolled immigration, that's why there's a joke around Starmer constantly going on about "smashing the gangs" and people at the Guardian were clutching their pearls at him talking to the Italian PM about their migration policies a few months ago.

Of course, nobody wants to seriously engage with the long term solutions which would involve solving climate change, free trade with poorer countries so that more jobs are available in those countries and engaging to solve the political and social problems of those countries so that people don't feel the need to emmigrate from them for a better life. That would cost money.

It also doesn't help that there are many people on the right who do want to talk about this who are more interested in stirring the pot and provoking a reaction, and then conflating whatever nonsense they've just said with normal people's more reasonable thoughts on the matter, than they are with actually discussing the issues sensibly and moderately.

This I do agree with.

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Hugo Rune said:

Trump may well be as thick as shit but Musk really is a genius, albeit an evil one who would grace any James Bond movie as the media mogul baddie intent on taking over the world.

The debate on which Bond villain he mostly resembles is a tough one though. I’m going for my fellow Hugo:

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Professor Plum said:

I said illegal / undocumented unplanned immigration. I’m all in favour of planned, economic migration and as long as it has the consent of the people at large, we should embrace it. Even a Reform voter is surely happy to see an Indian doctor if it means they can get a GP appointment.

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Weststander said:

Labelling. Where would you place North Korea, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran?

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Uh_huh_him said:

Sorry what does social media was inclined to be left leaning mean?

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Guinness Boy said:

What an incredibly patronising piece of horse shit.

Immigration is needed in this country all the time there’s a birth rate, as there is currently, of 1.69 in this country.

I bet you’re one of those whinging about WFP without the slightest realisation that future generations of pensioners will be impoverished without the young adults to fill the government’s coffers.

Luckily we have a government addressing this long term issue as well as the impending climate crisis instead of the thoughts of cab drivers who can’t see beyond next week.

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Harry Wilson's tackle said:

I disagree.

From what I can see 'the left' (i.e., the equivalent of 'the right' - the extremists) are absolutely useless at winning hearts and minds, inventing shit that becomes accepted as fact, gaining any traction with wider society, etc.

When was the last time a hard left party won a general election? Anywhere?

The hard left are irrelevant. They don't even own a cat, let alone have a dog in the fight.

Someone posted on here a while ago that the doctors' union', the British Medical Association (which is in fact a professional governing body) is a militant organization run by Marxists intent on bringing down society and are hated by rank and file doctors who just want to get on with their jobs.

This makes the BMA the leading (and only) player from the 'hard left' in this eternal battle with the likes of Trump, Musk, Badenough, the clown in Hungary, the clown in France, the clown in Germany, the clown in Sweden and so on.

For the sake of balance I am suggesting that your perception of a balance between the nefarious right and the nefarious left is a somewhat one-eyed take on the sociopolitical landscape.

And I say that as someone who is not bovvered about the way things are - if the whole world wants to buy into the Musk/Trump vision, they can fill their boots. It is all same old same old as far as I can see. "If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote Labour". We have heard it all before. And we move on. And dull old Starmer suits me fine at the moment.

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WATFORD zero said:

You're perfectly happy with the 1,220,000 'legal' migrants in 2023, but think the 29,437 asylum seekers are the big problem ?

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Professor Plum said:

I said illegal / undocumented unplanned immigration. I’m all in favour of planned, economic migration and as long as it has the consent of the people at large, we should embrace it. Even a Reform voter is surely happy to see an Indian doctor if it means they can get a GP appointment.

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Guinness Boy said:

What an incredibly patronising piece of horse shit.

Immigration is needed in this country all the time there’s a birth rate, as there is currently, of 1.69 in this country.

I bet you’re one of those whinging about WFP without the slightest realisation that future generations of pensioners will be impoverished without the young adults to fill the government’s coffers.

Luckily we have a government addressing this long term issue as well as the impending climate crisis instead of the thoughts of cab drivers who can’t see beyond next week.

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Harry Wilson's tackle said:

If there is a threat out there, it is from the hard right, the demagogues, the chancers and the grifters. The hard left is irrelevant. Pol Pot has long since vanished. China has embraced capitalism. Who the f*** is Chavez when he's not at home in Venezuela?

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tigertim68 said:

Sorry mate you are the one talking horse shit , this country is being run like a police state , with a party so far to the left , by people who are probably the least qualified, least Talented , least experience that this country has ever had ,

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Guinness Boy said:

What an incredibly patronising piece of horse shit.

Immigration is needed in this country all the time there’s a birth rate, as there is currently, of 1.69 in this country.

I bet you’re one of those whinging about WFP without the slightest realisation that future generations of pensioners will be impoverished without the young adults to fill the government’s coffers.

Luckily we have a government addressing this long term issue as well as the impending climate crisis instead of the thoughts of cab drivers who can’t see beyond next week.

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heathgate said:

There isn't, and never has been a pre req that you need to be 'informed'..... democracy is just that, a true balance of the electoral opinion across all demographics, age, race, education and economic.... suck it up.

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nicko31 said:

People don't like the idea of immigration, but then complain when there's no one to wipe their mother in-laws backside.

Unless we can increase the birthrate, we need migration and we need to work for our neighbours who to deal with climate / war refugees. Trying to pull up the drawbridge won't work

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tigertim68 said:

Sorry mate you are the one talking horse shit , this country is being run like a police state , with a party so far to the left , by people who are probably the least qualified, least Talented , least experience that this country has ever had ,

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ManOfSussex said:

I read about that last week - one of Reagan's biggest errors.

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Bodian said:

And secondly - Starmer's party is more to the right than even Blair's labour. The far left of Corbyn was soundly rejected at the ballot box.

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tigertim68 said:

Sorry mate you are the one talking horse shit , this country is being run like a police state , with a party so far to the left , by people who are probably the least qualified, least Talented , least experience that this country has ever had ,

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