[Politics] The 2024 US Election - MATCH DAY

FatSuperman · Nov 6, 2024

And the immigration issue is critical, illegal immigration needs tackling - by having proper controls to quickly run people through the process and ‘send them back’ or get them into the workplace.

Ironically, this is a potential route that makes ‘American made’ products competitive… by driving down labour costs with people used to a lower standard of living. But those people need to integrate with the more upwardly mobile of US society over time, and that needs to be made possible. You can’t have near-slavery

Harry Wilson's tackle · Nov 6, 2024

FatSuperman said:
R

Is that genuinely what you think Americans want? Perhaps you think something else will happen, but making American-made goods more competitive by making imported goods more expensive is called protectionism and ends up with:

- retaliation of controls on import of US goods and service, affecting American export profits

- significantly increased costs to consumers

- reduced competition and quality

American-made already exists for almost everything, it’s just usually incredibly expensive by comparison, and/or junk.

When I lived there, I knew that anything with a sticker that said “Made in America with pride”, was a good indicator that thing would fall apart.

Every time I visit California all I see is foreign cars.

I was told by a local that if I wanted to see American cars on the road, I should head out to the mid west, where folk drive 'merican cars when not a-prayin' to Jesus.

peterward · Nov 6, 2024

chickens said:
No, America genuinely wants what Trump’s selling. The consensus in the US is currently that it was a mistake to allow manufacturing expertise to dwindle and to outsource decently paying jobs to other countries. Trump wants those jobs and tax receipts (and that expertise) back.

He will implement tariffs to whatever degree is required to make “America made” competitive in the domestic market.

Immigration has been a political football for over a decade, and there’s no doubt that Trump’s lot have weaponised it, but again most of America doesn’t want people traffickers and cross-border drugs operations getting in and out unchallenged. Trump’s rhetoric on this has been vile in places, but the underlying idea of “control your borders” has widespread support across the political spectrum.

Trump’s message was “fix the borders and bring the jobs home, and we can have nice things again.”

Harris’s was largely “don’t elect a misogynistic bullshitter.”

Only one of those two offered a vision for the future. People decided they were willing to put up with some misogynistic bullshit in return for a potentially better future.

I hear you, but in 2016 he also got the trifecta for 2 years. Presidency and both houses and he did absolutely naff all on border..... he started in last 2 years with divided house, and got grand total of 2% built with Mexico paying nothing.....

The trouble with populism is its snake oil.... creating problems to fix that play on voter emotions at a visceral level but actually doing very little to resolve these complex issues in reality.

He won't fix Border or build total wall imho.... its just electioneering issue that plays well to his target demographic simply for him to stay out of jail.

chickens · Nov 6, 2024

FatSuperman said:
R

Is that genuinely what you think Americans want? Perhaps you think something else will happen, but making American-made goods more competitive by making imported goods more expensive is called protectionism and ends up with:

- retaliation of controls on import of US goods and service, affecting American export profits

- significantly increased costs to consumers

- reduced competition and quality

American-made already exists for almost everything, it’s just usually incredibly expensive by comparison, and/or junk.

When I lived there, I knew that anything with a sticker that said “Made in America with pride”, was a good indicator that thing would fall apart.

Trump is 100% protectionist. His whole game plan is “make it here, because I’m going to increase the import tariffs until it becomes cheaper to make it here than import.”

I agree completely re: all your points, but protectionism can work in the short to medium term. It brings in jobs, tax receipts, and a feeling that as a country you’re building things. It’s when there’s a scarcity/price hike in something imported you’re reliant on that problems start to mount. Let’s hope they get better at building things with more practice.

Zeberdi · Nov 6, 2024

AZ Gull said:
Hopefully the Democratic Party have already begun their inquest into why their candidate performed significantly worse than Biden did four years ago - and are wiling to learn lessons.

The fact you choose to use a distressful letter from a member of my family to get in a patronising and passive aggressive dig says more about you than anything else I have seen you post on these boards.

I didn’t post her letter to make a political point, I posted it to demonstrate how utterly devastated my elderly aunt and uncle are. As second generation immigrants, they were dreading life in the US if Trump got elected.

As it happens, I am genuinely very concerned for their welfare at the moment for reasons I am not going to go into.

You could have made your point about Democrats needing to learn lessons without quoting a distressing letter from a member of my family.

Ive now deleted the letter because it’s too personal and upsetting to post on a football forum perhaps you could remove my letter from your quote please.

jordanseagull · Nov 6, 2024

ROSM said:
Changing this thread slightly, it would seem that the Labour Govt were better prepared for this than many of us (and certainly I) was.

The new Trump administration are making positive noises about the meeting they held with Starmer and Lammy in New York a few weeks ago (where Lammy even got served and extra portion of chicken by Trump himself - presumably to keep him away from Trumps cheeseburgers) and also that Starmer contacted him after the shooting

But the uk govt have a tough choice now. Brexit was supposed to enable better trade deals with the US. Under America first, that won't happen.so does Starmer abandon the slowly slowly catchy monkey plan to have closer ties with the EU and go quicker towards that?

The first Trump administration pursued a trade deal with the UK (I worked on an element of it). It was Biden who shut it down and never revisited it.

US Seagull · Nov 6, 2024

chickens said:
He will implement tariffs to whatever degree is required to make “America made” competitive in the domestic market.

So, in other words, make everything much more expensive.

Some people would call that inflation.

While making American exports less competitive due to retaliatory tariffs.

Curious Orange · Nov 6, 2024

chickens said:
No, America genuinely wants what Trump’s selling. The consensus in the US is currently that it was a mistake to allow manufacturing expertise to dwindle and to outsource decently paying jobs to other countries. Trump wants those jobs and tax receipts (and that expertise) back.

He will implement tariffs to whatever degree is required to make “America made” competitive in the domestic market.

Immigration has been a political football for over a decade, and there’s no doubt that Trump’s lot have weaponised it, but again most of America doesn’t want people traffickers and cross-border drugs operations getting in and out unchallenged. Trump’s rhetoric on this has been vile in places, but the underlying idea of “control your borders” has widespread support across the political spectrum.

Trump’s message was “fix the borders and bring the jobs home, and we can have nice things again.”

Harris’s was largely “don’t elect a misogynistic bullshitter.”

Only one of those two offered a vision for the future. People decided they were willing to put up with some misogynistic bullshit in return for a potentially better future.

That message would work here too.

FatSuperman · Nov 6, 2024

US Seagull said:
So, in other words, make everything much more expensive.

Some people would call that inflation.

While making American exports less competitive due to retaliatory tariffs.

It does surprise me that every single American I speak to understands this concept perfectly, and thinks it’s a terrible idea. And yet a huge number of people voted on basically this factor

AZ Gull · Nov 6, 2024

Zeberdi said:
The fact you choose to use a distressful letter from a member of my family to get in a patronising and passive aggressive dig says more about you than anything else I have seen you post on these boards.

I didn’t post her letter to make a political point, I posted it to demonstrate how utterly devastated my elderly aunt and uncle are. As second generation immigrants, they were dreading life in the US if Trump got elected.

As it happens, I am genuinely very concerned for their welfare at the moment for reasons I am not going to go into.

You could have made your point about Democrats needing to learn lessons without quoting a distressing letter from a member of my family.

Ive now deleted the letter because it’s too personal and upsetting to post on a football forum perhaps you could remove my letter from your quote please.

...

nicko31 · Nov 6, 2024

US bond yield already rising, dollar rising, inflation coming, higher rates for longer.

Silly people

chickens · Nov 6, 2024

Curious Orange said:
That message would work here too.

It’s possible, but we have far less in terms of existing industry and natural resource, and import almost everything.

We need to be working with our universities, rather like the way that ARM came about, but insisting on holding onto a 20% stake as part of the funding agreement that grows it.

We sold all our silver decades ago.

Won’t stop the grifters from trying though.

US Seagull said:
So, in other words, make everything much more expensive.

Some people would call that inflation.

While making American exports less competitive due to retaliatory tariffs.

If you can keep wages rising slightly ahead of price increases (tighter labour market, more opportunities) then it can work. However, there’s usually a point at which that can’t be done, and then people get unhappy and vote you out.

ROSM · Nov 6, 2024

9

jordanseagull said:
The first Trump administration pursued a trade deal with the UK (I worked on an element of it). It was Biden who shut it down and never revisited it.

I thought the uk rejected the offer made by Trump late 2020 as it would have killed the airbus business in the UK. Truss apparently made the decision on officials advice

peterward · Nov 6, 2024

How true is this

nicko31 · Nov 6, 2024

ROSM said:
9

I thought the uk rejected the offer made by Trump late 2020 as it would have killed the airbus business in the UK. Truss apparently made the decision on officials advice

Leave things as is, we're fine. We don't want to get f**ked over by what is becoming a rogue state

Just re-join the EU customs union instead

Zeberdi · Nov 6, 2024

Bry Nylon said:
I can’t believe your aunt doesn’t know your name

I’ve deleted my post/her letter - I should have known better than to post something so personal and upsetting.

Strange that I already deleted long before you quoted it - how does that work?

You resurrected my post after I requested the image be removed?

Bry Nylon · Nov 6, 2024

Zeberdi said:
I’ve deleted my post - I should have known better to post something so personal and upsetting.

You deleted it? In that case I’ll delete mine.

No offence intended, Z old chap

Zeberdi · Nov 6, 2024

Bry Nylon said:
You deleted it? In that case I’ll delete mine.

No offence intended, Z old chap

Thanks - appreciate it - still weird you managed to quote it though when I had already deleted it much longer than 9 minutes ago!

hart's shirt · Nov 6, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I am going out on a limb here but I don't think a majority of US voters are stupid. They are unashamedly self-interested. They see their self interest being best met by Trump.

Indeed, H.

There's nothing stupid about this Trump voter, let alone being racist, misogynist or 'deplorable'.

Just self-interest as an African American along with lack of distinction from Biden and the price of milk.

Sometimes it's as straightforward as that. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czxrnw5qrprt

Cameron Lewellen was an undecided African American voter in the swing state of Georgia, and he decided to vote for Trump. In the past, he has voted Democrat and Republican.

The father-of-three says it was "somewhat of a protest vote", adding that he "didn't hear enough from Kamala that she would be distinct from Biden".

"There was a lot in recent times about how great the economy was doing but all my neighbours are still complaining about the price of milk," he tells BBC Newshour.

“Kamala Harris, as a woman, was representing a breakthrough from the glass ceiling and she was also leaning in to her heritage as an African American in this country, but she didn’t put out any policies to address the systemic issues for African Americans."

Bry Nylon · Nov 6, 2024

Zeberdi said:
Thanks - appreciate it - still weird you managed to quote it though when I had already deleted it much longer than 9 minutes ago!

Yes. That’s entirely my fault. Moderator functionality enables visibility of deleted posts. I didn’t realise I had that functionality activated at that time. Your post isn’t visible on the Board.

My fault. Apologies. Have a peaceful evening.

[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

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[Politics] The 2024 US Election - MATCH DAY