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[Politics] The Labour Government



B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,362
Cumbria
Kinky Gerbil said:
seems like a tax (not tax) on working people

If you price people out they will just drive, we are meant to be pushing people towards using public transport over driving.

We've just moved into a new building in the middle of town in Crawley and the company/ council pushed the £2 bus fare as a bonus and a reason not to drive.

£2 extra a day doesn't seem much, but over the course of a month it adds up.
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The Clamp said:
We won’t raise taxes for working people.

Raises bus fare cap by 50% from £2 to £3.

I’m trying to be patient but my God, they’re testing me.

Are they deliberately targeting the poorest in the community?
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It's not a tax - it's a subsidy to the bus companies that was coming to an end.

Labour are continuing it, but at a slightly higher level (reduced subsidy)

When train fares rise - will you be saying that it is an extra tax?

You can't roll this in to the working people tax issue.
 




Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
57,337
Back in Sussex
Bodian said:
It's not a tax - it's a subsidy to the bus companies that was coming to an end.

Labour are continuing it, but at a slightly higher level (reduced subsidy)

When train fares rise - will you be saying that it is an extra tax?

You can't roll this in to the working people tax issue.
Click to expand...
As two points of order...

- More money went to local authorities than to bus companies:

"As part of the £300 million to support services until 2025, £160 million will be provided to local transport authorities to improve fares, services and infrastructure while £140 million will go directly to operators to help protect essential services across England."​
​
​
- If you consider a 50% rise as "a slightly higher level" then Rachel Reeves as a job for you in the Treasury.
 


A

A mex eyecan

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2011
3,891
Eeyore said:
I would argue that a personal ideology is a closed mind and that values and standards shift over time. My goal is not to have a fixed view of anything really. Well, apart from refusing to shop at ASDA until they stock rich tea fingers again.A lack
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A lack of rich tea biscuits is without doubt the most serious consequence of everything that been suggested to be wrong in this entire post!

Down with Asda! Down with them I say.
 


C

cjd

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2006
6,314
La Rochelle
Guinness Boy said:
Interesting because here’s you parroting Reform’s argument based on the Great Replacement Theory several years before they existed.



And here’s your outraged response to Truss killing the economy on the Tory meltdown thread.

:tumble:
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You really are the saddest **** on NSC....lol.....
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,362
Cumbria
Bozza said:
As two points of order...

- More money went to local authorities than to bus companies:

"As part of the £300 million to support services until 2025, £160 million will be provided to local transport authorities to improve fares, services and infrastructure while £140 million will go directly to operators to help protect essential services across England."​
​
​
- If you consider a 50% rise as "a slightly higher level" then Rachel Reeves as a job for you in the Treasury.
Click to expand...
The current cap was temporary and due to expire at the end of the year. Without a new investment fares would have gone back to what they were.

They are not 'putting prices up', they are simply not able to maintain the current subsidy levels.

The problem is - whatever they do is going to have repercussions. If there is no rise on NI, VAT, Income Tax, Employers VAT, IHT, CGT, and no reductions in subsidies - then how on earth are the Government meant to get any funding to start fixing stuff?

If we want the £2 bus fare cap - where does the money for it come from if they can't raise any of the taxes they will be criticised for raising?
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
26,004
Guinness Boy said:
Coming from a man who called Bozza c***ish and had a dig at Lord Bracknell’s moderation I’ll take that as a compliment 👍
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I shall hitherto refer to thee as TWEMON The Worst Ever Moderator On NSC
 


H

HalfaSeatOn

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2014
2,102
North West Sussex
WATFORD zero said:
I'm sorry but I think claiming to be politically and economically naive is a cop out from actually naming the areas to tax. I believe, as you have shown on this thread today, that you have as much knowledge on the economy, taxes etc as most on NSC. But I'm guessing that, not for the first time, we'll have to agree to disagree :wink:

Me, I'd bang those two NI cuts back on, that the previous government desperately cut in January and April this year for starters, and then rejoin the CU but that's why I'd never make it as a politician :laugh:
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Inherited a mess and these should have been overturned as they weren’t affordable.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,771
The Fatherland




K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,794
hassocks
Bodian said:
It's not a tax - it's a subsidy to the bus companies that was coming to an end.

Labour are continuing it, but at a slightly higher level (reduced subsidy)

When train fares rise - will you be saying that it is an extra tax?

You can't roll this in to the working people tax issue.
Click to expand...

You can absolutely roll it into another hit to working people

Btw £3 is above the average fare before the £2 came in to my are.

They want people to travel green? This is a backwards step.

Trainfares are ridiculous as well.
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,034
Flounce said:
Was the “Fully costed, fully funded and ready to go“ election guff the absolute bullshit I thought it was at the time?

I was all for giving the toolmakers son a go but am currently seriously underwhelmed by him and his cohorts
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it was costed, they just didnt say exactly where the bill would be paid. they knew where it'd likely fall because there are only so many places it can, and ruled out income tax, NI, VAT.
 
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B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,362
Cumbria
Kinky Gerbil said:
You can absolutely roll it into another hit to working people

Btw £3 is above the average fare before the £2 came in to my are.

They want people to travel green? This is a backwards step.

Trainfares are ridiculous as well.
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Where do you suggest the tax intake rises to pay for it?
 




B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,362
Cumbria
WATFORD zero said:
Me, I'd bang those two NI cuts back on, that the previous government desperately cut in January and April this year for starters,
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That really would breach the manifesto promise. Partly why the Tories cut it - they knew Labour couldn't put it back on. Basically the end result is that NI stays the same, but 2p switched from employee to employer.
 




Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
57,337
Back in Sussex
Bodian said:
The current cap was temporary and due to expire at the end of the year. Without a new investment fares would have gone back to what they were.

They are not 'putting prices up', they are simply not able to maintain the current subsidy levels.

The problem is - whatever they do is going to have repercussions. If there is no rise on NI, VAT, Income Tax, Employers VAT, IHT, CGT, and no reductions in subsidies - then how on earth are the Government meant to get any funding to start fixing stuff?

If we want the £2 bus fare cap - where does the money for it come from if they can't raise any of the taxes they will be criticised for raising?
Click to expand...
I've not used the term "putting prices up", nor anything similar as I'm well aware that it's a subsidy. However, if you've been paying £2 per one-way trip to get to work, see your GP or get to a hospital appointment, then having to now pay £3 does mean you are paying 50% more.

I'd never heard of this £2 price cap, as I'm not a bus user, until I was researching ways to get to see my mum in Crawley Hospital each day. We're a one-car family, so taking the car away all day, every day, was not going to be ideal. The train from Worthing to Crawley isn't straight forward and, living in Findon, I'm also nowhere near any of Worthing's many stations.

It turns out Worthing to Crawley was 2 * £2 each way, Worthing to Horsham, and then Horsham to Crawley, but it still struck me as a great and reasonably-priced option.

I've not criticised this change because, even though I've since done some research - and posted a couple of links I found - I don't really know how widely it is used, nor what it was costing.

And, as you say, the provision of this kind of thing is all about trade-offs. Spending money on one thing means it can't be spent elsewhere. But it does seem to be a scheme that helped keep services on the road that would have otherwise ceased, helping people stay connected, and keeping people in jobs.

As to where money comes from, fortunately the Labour Party provided a fully-funded, fully-costed manifesto that didn't require any rises to income tax, (employee) NI nor VAT.
 




B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,362
Cumbria
Bozza said:
I've not used the term "putting prices up", nor anything similar as I'm well aware that it's a subsidy. However, if you've been paying £2 per one-way trip to get to work, see your GP or get to a hospital appointment, then having to now pay £3 does mean you are paying 50% more.

I'd never heard of this £2 price cap, as I'm not a bus user, until I was researching ways to get to see my mum in Crawley Hospital each day. We're a one-car family, so taking the car away all day, every day, was not going to be ideal. The train from Worthing to Crawley isn't straight forward and, living in Findon, I'm also nowhere near any of Worthing's many stations.

It turns out Worthing to Crawley was 2 * £2 each way, Worthing to Horsham, and then Horsham to Crawley, but it still struck me as a great and reasonably-priced option.

I've not criticised this change because, even though I've since done some research - and posted a couple of links I found - I don't really know how widely it is used, nor what it was costing.

And, as you say, the provision of this kind of thing is all about trade-offs. Spending money on one thing means it can't be spent elsewhere. But it does seem to be a scheme that helped keep services on the road that would have otherwise ceased, helping people stay connected, and keeping people in jobs.

As to where money comes from, fortunately the Labour Party provided a fully-funded, fully-costed manifesto that didn't require any rises to income tax, (employee) NI nor VAT.
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Fair enough - I read 'increase' as 'putting prices up'.

The biggest savings on the £2 cap were on the longer distance buses - and so the new £3 cap will still be good value. For instance, my bus fare to the nearest decent sized town was nudging onto £8 - so it's still a £5 saving. In fact, it's almost certainly still a £6 saving, as the fare would have gone up over the last few years to £9 or £10. Where it won't feel so good is shorter journeys where the initial saving is less in the first place.
 






WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,795
Bozza said:
I've not used the term "putting prices up", nor anything similar as I'm well aware that it's a subsidy. However, if you've been paying £2 per one-way trip to get to work, see your GP or get to a hospital appointment, then having to now pay £3 does mean you are paying 50% more.

I'd never heard of this £2 price cap, as I'm not a bus user, until I was researching ways to get to see my mum in Crawley Hospital each day. We're a one-car family, so taking the car away all day, every day, was not going to be ideal. The train from Worthing to Crawley isn't straight forward and, living in Findon, I'm also nowhere near any of Worthing's many stations.

It turns out Worthing to Crawley was 2 * £2 each way, Worthing to Horsham, and then Horsham to Crawley, but it still struck me as a great and reasonably-priced option.

I've not criticised this change because, even though I've since done some research - and posted a couple of links I found - I don't really know how widely it is used, nor what it was costing.

And, as you say, the provision of this kind of thing is all about trade-offs. Spending money on one thing means it can't be spent elsewhere. But it does seem to be a scheme that helped keep services on the road that would have otherwise ceased, helping people stay connected, and keeping people in jobs.

As to where money comes from, fortunately the Labour Party provided a fully-funded, fully-costed manifesto that didn't require any rises to income tax, (employee) NI nor VAT.
Click to expand...

And yet again, you're telling us where this money definitely shouldn't come from but when asked where it should come from you claim you are too 'politically and economically naive' to answer ???

I still haven't seen a single post saying where the money should come from, even though everyone agrees Britain is completely in the shit :shrug:
 
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Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
57,337
Back in Sussex
Bodian said:
Fair enough - I read 'increase' as 'putting prices up'.

The biggest savings on the £2 cap were on the longer distance buses - and so the new £3 cap will still be good value. For instance, my bus fare to the nearest decent sized town was nudging onto £8 - so it's still a £5 saving. In fact, it's almost certainly still a £6 saving, as the fare would have gone up over the last few years to £9 or £10. Where it won't feel so good is shorter journeys where the initial saving is less in the first place.
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Indeed - some of the sample fares on that link II posted above are very significant, whether you're paying £2, £3 or even a bit more than that.
 


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