Yep, winning by miles it’s clear he’s learned absolutely nothing and the FIA are determined to let him get away with it
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[Other Sport] F1 2024
- Thread starter Audax
- Start date
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Both cars left the track so McLaren believed there would be no penalty. They didn't factor in the FIA bias towards RB.
ElectricNaz
Well-known member
Also what I will say is I'm glad the fastest lap is going.
Alpine being really pathetic taking a point away from Williams similar to how VCARB gifted Ricciardo the fastest lap last time out. Hope they enjoy celebrating their 12th and 18th place tonight. Okay I understand it in their position for money reasons as it could make a difference, but it does make you look tin pot.
Genuinely mighty impressive from Colapinto to have had it up until then with a genuine race strategy and no late race housery. The guy is good! And exactly what Williams needed, if Albon is having a bad race they now have someone else who can share the load a bit which is massive.
Alpine being really pathetic taking a point away from Williams similar to how VCARB gifted Ricciardo the fastest lap last time out. Hope they enjoy celebrating their 12th and 18th place tonight. Okay I understand it in their position for money reasons as it could make a difference, but it does make you look tin pot.
Genuinely mighty impressive from Colapinto to have had it up until then with a genuine race strategy and no late race housery. The guy is good! And exactly what Williams needed, if Albon is having a bad race they now have someone else who can share the load a bit which is massive.
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Can I just reiterate that Max Verstappen is a twat
Seagull58
In the Algarve
You tell 'em, Toto
Seagull58
In the Algarve
He really is, but as I heard someone say, at least he has a friend in Lando whereas his dad, Jos, was such a **** he had no friends at all.
Unguarded Toto is always good fun
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,278
1. Fair play to Ferrari - a masterful performance.
2. I think Norris was unlucky to get that penalty.at the end.
3. I'm glad they got rid of 1 point for fastest lap. It was a naive gimmick that should never have seen the light of day.
2. I think Norris was unlucky to get that penalty.at the end.
3. I'm glad they got rid of 1 point for fastest lap. It was a naive gimmick that should never have seen the light of day.
AstroSloth
Well-known member
- Dec 29, 2020
- 1,385
Even Crofty and Brundle thought it would clearly be a penalty for Norris, in fact they thought it would be 10s and they're extremely biased against Max.
The difference between the Russell situation and Max/Norris situation is Russell was the overtaking car on the inside whilst Max was the defending car on the inside.
Bottas would have made the corner were it not for Russell, Norris locked up and would have gone wide anyway.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Max deliberately braked too late to make the corner in order to stay ahead at the apex and force Lando off the track.
AstroSloth
Well-known member
- Dec 29, 2020
- 1,385
And Lando locked his brakes into the corner suggesting he also braked too late and would have missed the corner.
The same thing happened earlier in the season but the other way round at Hungary and Max gave the position back because he wasn't ahead at the apex.
Creaky
Well-known member
MV was ahead at the apex so had no obligation to leave room for LN.
LN made two poor decisions IMO - he persisted with an overtake that was never going to be possible without leaving the track and then having done so failed to accept that he should give back the place.
Had LN yielded on the overtake MV may well have left the track in which case he would have had to give up the place.
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,638
Yes. The last lingering chance for Lando died this weekend. Max will win again. I, like many don't like him, but I think we have to say well done him. To win a driver championship when your team mate is normally about 8th is a hell of an effort
But MacLaren can build for next season, which I think should be the most intriguing for a while
- Thread starter
- #695
(Before I start ... I've still not seen the race
. But I know the result and what happened at key moments).I actually think where the stewards got it wrong is that they failed to take account of the rules around what a defending car can / cannot do. Strictly speaking, *both* drivers should have received a penalty:
- Lando for completing the overtake off-track and gaining a lasting advantage (yes, Verstappen forced him off but Lando had the choice to back out and return to track behind Verstappen)
- Verstappen for leaving the track while defending and in doing so gaining a lasting advantage (namely giving Lando no choice other than go off as well)
So the fairest outcome should have been 5 sec penalty for both of them, in which case the situation is neutralised ... except McLaren could then have tried to see if they could get Piastri to finish close enough to Verstappen, but far enough from Norris, to finish ahead of Verstappen once penalties applied.
I would also argue that Verstappen was extremely lucky to get away with the lap 1, T1 situation. Yes, the stewards typically are more lenient on lap 1. But that was cut and dried for me - Verstappen created a situation that gave him a lasting and illegitimate advantage over his title rival. IMO Max is smart enough that he won't have been that worried about letting the Ferrari's go. His focus is on Lando. Ferrari's taking P1 and P2 actually helps him, especially if he's also ahead of Lando. So that move into T1 was, I suspect, premeditated. He was always planning to go for it and didn't care if it meant both of them went wide, as long as he snookered Lando he was happy.
I think this article is right on a number of things in relation to what happened:
It’s not impossible Max wins the Drivers championship and Red Bull finish 3rd in the constructors championship, which surely must be a first
- Thread starter
- #697
Looking forward: rumours are starting to swirl that something significant might be afoot for 2025 seats. Talk out of Argentina is that Colapinto might find his way into a 2025 seat, and while the Sauber/Audi seat is the obvious one the specifics that were shared with the rumour (that it requires *2* other drivers to move first) suggests something else is at play. The most obvious would be a Perez out situation, with Lawson moving into that seat, and Red Bull extracting Colapinto from Williams and placing him at VCARB.
But there's other possible permutations. It's been denied many times, but there was a rumour earlier this season that Sainz can exit his Williams contract if he receives an offer from a top team before 2025 starts. Could it be Perez out, Sainz to Red Bull, Colapinto stays at Williams? Lawson can then have a 2025 run at VCARB alongside Tsunoda to prove himself properly.
That Sauber/Audi seat looks like it won't be resolved any time soon. I think at this point it's clear that either Audi don't want Bottas (but will take him if they can't sign someone else) or Bottas doesn't want what Audi are willing to offer (eg his salary demands are too high or he wants 2 years but they only want to give him 1). Either way ... if Audi wanted him and were willing to offer what Bottas wants, he'd be signed by now IMO. So they clearly can't find agreement. The other options Audi appear to be looking at are:
* Bortoleto. The problem here being he's a McLaren contracted junior and McLaren are not willing to let him go. Apparently a loan is an option, but under what criteria?
* Colapinto. See above, except replace McLaren with Williams.
* Mick Schumacher. But he's apparently 3rd/4th in the pecking order (depending on whether or not Bottas shifts his position on what he wants).
But there's other possible permutations. It's been denied many times, but there was a rumour earlier this season that Sainz can exit his Williams contract if he receives an offer from a top team before 2025 starts. Could it be Perez out, Sainz to Red Bull, Colapinto stays at Williams? Lawson can then have a 2025 run at VCARB alongside Tsunoda to prove himself properly.
That Sauber/Audi seat looks like it won't be resolved any time soon. I think at this point it's clear that either Audi don't want Bottas (but will take him if they can't sign someone else) or Bottas doesn't want what Audi are willing to offer (eg his salary demands are too high or he wants 2 years but they only want to give him 1). Either way ... if Audi wanted him and were willing to offer what Bottas wants, he'd be signed by now IMO. So they clearly can't find agreement. The other options Audi appear to be looking at are:
* Bortoleto. The problem here being he's a McLaren contracted junior and McLaren are not willing to let him go. Apparently a loan is an option, but under what criteria?
* Colapinto. See above, except replace McLaren with Williams.
* Mick Schumacher. But he's apparently 3rd/4th in the pecking order (depending on whether or not Bottas shifts his position on what he wants).
- Thread starter
- #698
Not a first, but it is rare. Nelson Piquet did it with Brabham in 1983, and Keke Rosberg did it with Williams in 1982.
1983 actually had Ferrari as WCC but the best Ferrari driver was Arnoux in 3rd in the WDC. That's a record that could also repeat this season. With Ferrari back on form, McLaren could win the WCC but Norris only finish 3rd in the WDC (behind Leclerc).
- Thread starter
- #699
OK, revised opinion having seen the incident properly now. IMO the stewards got it wrong. Lando was clearly around 1/3 to 1/2 car length ahead deep in the braking zone and on the racing line. Max then rolls off the brakes early and surges in front again as they go into the turn-in for the corner, but he can't turn in because he's now carrying too much speed. That forces Lando wide, Max fails to make the turn, and that means Lando has no choice but to also go wide.
So ... IMO, given Lando had a significant and obvious advantage immediately before entry to the corner, I think the stewards were entitled to make a subjective decision that Max was the car attempting an overtake (basically from the moment he rolled off the brakes early he was the attacker, not the defender) and that he failed to control the car sufficiently to be entitled to come out of the corner ahead.
McLaren and Lando did make a mistake in not handing the place back, but I can fully understand why they did so.
The problem with the decision the stewards made (and I really hope ahead of the next race they stick their hands up and say "we made a mistake, no one else try that or you'll get pinged") is that they've now set a precedent that a defending car on the inside is entitled to roll off the brakes early in order to be ahead at the apex and run the car on the outside off the track. That's going to be bad.
- Thread starter
- #700
This rumour is now gathering pace ahead of the Mexico GP. Another poor race weekend for Sergio could see more turmoil in the Red Bull camp. RB have been openly talking about possibly replacing Perez for next season, and now that Ricciardo has gone the rumour mill has switched focus. Lawson's strong weekend in Austin, if backed up by another strong showing at Mexico, could spell the end of Sergio's time in Red Bull (and Formula 1?)
Watch out for a retirement announcement this weekend - Sergio won't want to go out the way Ricciardo did, he'll want to control the narrative and make his own play.