[Politics] The Labour Government

The Clamp · Oct 4, 2024

BLOCK F said:
I can sympathise and when I tell my state educated wife some of the tales from those very far off days ( thank f—k), she can’t believe it.
I really think that some on here who have banged on about public schools, but actually have no idea what it was like would have struggled to survive intact.
So different now, thankfully, but it was a pretty brutal austere life back in the day.

I totally agree.

Not many people I know would get through some of the punishments.

Being woken up at 5am and running 5 miles in your underwear in December, anyone?

Painting coal white?

10 mile run instead of going home on a Saturday?

To name but a few that I recall.

And all the everyday stuff. Grim.

Then endless marching round the square on CCF. Ugh.

It was no picnic.

nevergoagain · Oct 4, 2024

Withdean South Stand said:
Oh please. Let's not pretend the Conservatives didn't spend their time in power accepting absolutely everything they could. I thought it was terrible when they were doing it and it's terrible now Labour are doing it but it shouldn't be reported as if Labour are doing something dodgy which has never happened before and is totally beyond belief.

Hopefully this focus and attention on the freebies will drive behavioural change, because it's obviously grubby and inappropriate, but it's also obvious that the "outrage" is largely staged and an inconsistently applied standard.

Absolutely the Tories were doing the same thing but you would have to be very absent minded to not remember the outrage in the media and definitely on here about everything. It would be great if we had a set of politicians all round that were noble and by the book but we'll sadly never get that.

amexer · Oct 4, 2024

A friend told me was educated at a convent boarding school Her morther took her on her first day and the nuns were charming. However as soon as mother out of site the nun got the belt out

The Clamp · Oct 4, 2024

amexer said:
A friend told me was educated at a convent boarding school Her morther took her on her first day and the nuns were charming. However as soon as mother out of site the nun got the belt out

Yes, I can well imagine.

Although strictly speaking, corporal punishment was outlawed by the time I went.

But none of the masters were beyond throwing hands or giving us a good whack with a strap.

Didn’t help that nearly all the masters were war veterans and many clearly had PTSD looking back. Anger issues to a man.

Anyway, Starmer! Pull your socks up lad, you’re making yourself look like a mutton head. Get your shit together.

Cotton Socks · Oct 4, 2024

BLOCK F said:
I may be misunderstanding your post, but hopefully an apprenticeship will give them a skill for life enabling them to earn decent money for the rest of their working days. It would more than make up for losing a couple of quid an hour as a youngster, in what could be a dead end job.

I do agree with you but starting on a 16 year olds wages after 2 years in college isn't particularly inspiring for those leaving college. Surely paying them the same rate as any other 18 year old would be more likely to encourage them to finish what they started. On a 35 hour week 9-5 (I'm assuming they won't get paid for an hour lunch break) £75 difference in wages (gross) p/w is a lot to an 18 year old especially if they want to run a car. That £300 per month (might) pay for the insurance & tax on it.
There is a chance that I have got this completely wrong and the 2 years of college does make a difference to pay?

beorhthelm · Oct 4, 2024

Cotton Socks said:
I do agree with you but starting on a 16 year olds wages after 2 years in college isn't particularly inspiring for those leaving college. Surely paying them the same rate as any other 18 year old would be more likely to encourage them to finish what they started. On a 35 hour week 9-5 (I'm assuming they won't get paid for an hour lunch break) £75 difference in wages (gross) p/w is a lot to an 18 year old especially if they want to run a car. That £300 per month (might) pay for the insurance & tax on it.
There is a chance that I have got this completely wrong and the 2 years of college does make a difference to pay?

yeah, getting this wrong by not looking at the long term. take a view that difference is the cost of training. they'll be earning considerable more than those just picking up regular unskilled work after the training is complete.

chip · Oct 4, 2024

amexer said:
A friend told me was educated at a convent boarding school Her morther took her on her first day and the nuns were charming. However as soon as mother out of site the nun got the belt out

My sister went to the Towers in Upper Beeding, she was quite a few years older than me and I think the nuns disturbed the young me. I've held a mild dislike of them ever since, even though some were very nice.

jcdenton08 · Oct 4, 2024

Withdean South Stand said:
Oh please. Let's not pretend the Conservatives didn't spend their time in power accepting absolutely everything they could. I thought it was terrible when they were doing it and it's terrible now Labour are doing it but it shouldn't be reported as if Labour are doing something dodgy which has never happened before and is totally beyond belief.

Hopefully this focus and attention on the freebies will drive behavioural change, because it's obviously grubby and inappropriate, but it's also obvious that the "outrage" is largely staged and an inconsistently applied standard.

Agree with everything but the last bit. The Johnson wallpaper stuff for example was front page news for a cycle, along with others.

People are pissed off because they spent their entire opposition campaign under Starmer attacking Tory scandals such as expenses and gifts, then have come in and done exactly the same (or near as damn it).

jcdenton08 · Oct 4, 2024

The Clamp said:
I totally agree.

Not many people I know would get through some of the punishments.

Being woken up at 5am and running 5 miles in your underwear in December, anyone?

Painting coal white?

10 mile run instead of going home on a Saturday?

To name but a few that I recall.

And all the everyday stuff. Grim.

Then endless marching round the square on CCF. Ugh.

It was no picnic.

And that’s not even mentioning the inevitable buggery and unwilling games of “soggy biscuit”.

Cotton Socks · Oct 5, 2024

beorhthelm said:
yeah, getting this wrong by not looking at the long term. take a view that difference is the cost of training. they'll be earning considerable more than those just picking up regular unskilled work after the training is complete.

Who's paying the cost of training? I've read it as 95% gov & 5% employer, small businesses get a £1k incentive to take on an apprentice & don't have to pay NI employer contributions.
It's not me who's not looking at it in the long term, it's 18 year olds that are leaving college after 2 years & want to earn the same minimum wage as those who haven't been to college for 2 years full time.
Because I'm old, I'm trying to look at this from an 18 year olds point of view. Same job but the person who joined the company from school on an apprenticeship who went to college one day a week, will earn more per hour than the kid who spent 2 years full time at college & then has to go on a years apprenticeship to complete their level 3. Yes I get what you're saying & I've already agreed with someone else on the same point. If we're short of plumbers, electricians etc then an apprenticeship straight from school is the best option pay wise for a kid. No point in going to college full time when you're going to be paid less than someone who's been doing it straight from school & will get the 18 year old min wage when they're 18.
Some are being led to believe that full time college is the best thing, when going straight into an apprenticeship after leaving school is the better option.

Hugo Rune · Oct 5, 2024

The Clamp said:
I totally agree.

Not many people I know would get through some of the punishments.

Being woken up at 5am and running 5 miles in your underwear in December, anyone?

Painting coal white?

10 mile run instead of going home on a Saturday?

To name but a few that I recall.

And all the everyday stuff. Grim.

Then endless marching round the square on CCF. Ugh.

It was no picnic.

Forget all that.

The sexual abuse in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s etc that went on in these Private Schools (mainly boarding) is absolutely sickening.

It reminds me of the scandal in Ireland with the nonce catholic priests.

There are so many stories about abuse in these schools, it’s terrifying to think how widespread it was.

Withdean South Stand · Oct 5, 2024

jcdenton08 said:
Agree with everything but the last bit. The Johnson wallpaper stuff for example was front page news for a cycle, along with others.

People are pissed off because they spent their entire opposition campaign under Starmer attacking Tory scandals such as expenses and gifts, then have come in and done exactly the same (or near as damn it).

I think the people who are pissed off are the people who would have been pissed off, whatever happened. Outrage for hire.

jcdenton08 · Oct 5, 2024

Withdean South Stand said:
I think the people who are pissed off are the people who would have been pissed off, whatever happened. Outrage for hire.

This has been repeatedly disputed and disproven by lots of us who supported and/or voted for Labour in the election. But this is just going to go around in circles and I can’t be bothered repeating. Just read the last 20-30 pages. Diehards from both sides defending their team, no matter what they do, non-party politicals in the middle shaking their heads sadly.

cunning fergus · Oct 6, 2024

Withdean South Stand said:
Oh please. Let's not pretend the Conservatives didn't spend their time in power accepting absolutely everything they could. I thought it was terrible when they were doing it and it's terrible now Labour are doing it but it shouldn't be reported as if Labour are doing something dodgy which has never happened before and is totally beyond belief.

Hopefully this focus and attention on the freebies will drive behavioural change, because it's obviously grubby and inappropriate, but it's also obvious that the "outrage" is largely staged and an inconsistently applied standard.

In broad terms that’s probably correct, the difference is however that in opposition Labour have eulogised their “difference” to the predictable trough snorkelling Tories, so now when there is no difference ethically speaking (on gifts) they have further to fall.

Personally I don’t think the freebies issue is the problem, the underlying problem is they didn’t understand how it would look and get ahead of the fallout. Chuck in a £22bn black hole, painful choices, pension uncertainty and withdrawal of the WFA and there’s a perfect “f*** you” moment for millions of voters happy to see the back of the Tories.

I don’t see outrage just resignation we’ve got another lot that will make sure they are just fine. To that extent, and again, in my view, the story about Sue Grey’s son and other new MPs connected to other Labour wheels is frankly much worse. Rosie Duffield alluded to it, and whilst it’s a just another example of the “them and us” position, it shows how confident the political classes are in just doing what they like.

hart's shirt · Oct 6, 2024

"Sue Gray has quit her role as Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer's chief of staff.
A Downing Street spokeswoman confirmed Ms Gray will take up a new role as the PM's envoy for nations and regions."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdenx2p32jxo

Thunder Bolt · Oct 6, 2024

Sue Gray has resigned as Chief of Staff, and will now be PM’s envoy to the nations.

Keir Starmer's chief of staff Sue Gray quits

Sue Gray has quit her role as Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer's chief of staff after a month in post.

www.bbc.co.uk

LamieRobertson · Oct 6, 2024

Sue Gray has resigned as Sir Keir Starmer’s chief of staff, saying she “risked becoming a distraction”.

The former civil servant said she had accepted a new role as the Prime Minister’s envoy for the regions and nations after a controversial three-month tenure in Downing Street. She will be replaced by Morgan McSweeney.

Giraffe · Oct 6, 2024

Astonishing hypocrisy

Bry Nylon · Oct 6, 2024

That went well then. Always an utterly ridiculous appointment that was bound to end up like this.

Once Simon Case announced his decision to resign it was clear her days were numbered once he could speak freely, notwithstanding the fact that the entire cabinet and pretty much every SPAD can’t stand her.

Fair play to her for managing to wangle a face-saving complete non-job before her retirement is quietly announced on March 31st next year.

peterward · Oct 6, 2024

hart's shirt said:
"Sue Gray has quit her role as Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer's chief of staff.
A Downing Street spokeswoman confirmed Ms Gray will take up a new role as the PM's envoy for nations and regions."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdenx2p32jxo

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