Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
Quite, defending Israel's airspace is quite different from being involved in an assault on one of their neighbours territories. I have no problem with the former, but would take an extremely dim view of the latter.
[News] how comfortable are you with UK airforce defending Israel?
- Thread starter aftershavedave
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Quite, defending Israel's airspace is quite different from being involved in an assault on one of their neighbours territories. I have no problem with the former, but would take an extremely dim view of the latter.
aftershavedave
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #22
"Of course you were talking about me - You don’t speak for British Jews nor do I and you don’t speak for me so please don’t presume what I think"
Seriously I couldn't give a f*** what you think, it's 1000% not about you, as unhappy that you'll be to read that. Take a rest
Seriously I couldn't give a f*** what you think, it's 1000% not about you, as unhappy that you'll be to read that. Take a rest
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,366
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Weststander
Well-known member
We have the technology, Israel (beyond Netanyahu) are long term allies, Iran are foes and we didn't want to see Iran murder further people.
On the subject of why? ... Putin luvvies in the UK (traitors) ask why are Germany/France/UK/Italy helping Ukraine?
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,366
...
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aftershavedave
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #26
and there we go, destroyed in an hour. My question, if anyone is interested anymore is: when did this become Govt policy? nothing more, nothing less
It's a difficult one.
I'm more than happy for us to help defend Israel's civilians. In particular from a massive over-reaction from Iran.
On the other hand ... the whole situation over there is stupid. Israel's government and military are far too heavy-handed and have a tendency to treat any non-Israeli as a suspect terrorist. Which inflames the whole situation. I have a lot of sympathy for civilian Palestinians and feel they also have a right to be defended from massive military over-reactions.
But also ... the approach of Hamas, especially that attack last year, cannot be defended. That sort of activity is not going to get them what they want.
Both sides have shown a complete lack of ability to flex, lack of empathy, lack of ability to see how their approaches to dealing with it all simply won't result in a "victory" for either side.
So IMO ... we should not help defend Israel from the side-effects of how they've handled things. But defending them from Iran ... I can live with that. For now. But if Israel responds in-kind and further escalates the situation, that might change.
I'm more than happy for us to help defend Israel's civilians. In particular from a massive over-reaction from Iran.
On the other hand ... the whole situation over there is stupid. Israel's government and military are far too heavy-handed and have a tendency to treat any non-Israeli as a suspect terrorist. Which inflames the whole situation. I have a lot of sympathy for civilian Palestinians and feel they also have a right to be defended from massive military over-reactions.
But also ... the approach of Hamas, especially that attack last year, cannot be defended. That sort of activity is not going to get them what they want.
Both sides have shown a complete lack of ability to flex, lack of empathy, lack of ability to see how their approaches to dealing with it all simply won't result in a "victory" for either side.
So IMO ... we should not help defend Israel from the side-effects of how they've handled things. But defending them from Iran ... I can live with that. For now. But if Israel responds in-kind and further escalates the situation, that might change.
mikeyjh
Well-known member
I am not in the slightest bit comfortable about the UK 'defending' Israel - They're on the offense and should be left to fight their own battles.
aftershavedave
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #29
well this is my view, thank you for a simple response mikey. can't personally see why we are involved
"The BBC understands that British military jets did not shoot down any Iranian ballistic missiles fired overnight. Nor did the Royal Navy Destroyer, HMS Duncan, fire any of her Sea Viper missiles.
The UK Defence Secretary, John Healey, earlier said that UK forces “played their part” to prevent escalation in last night’s mass Iranian ballistic missile strike on Israel.
But so far the Ministry of Defence has given no further detail of how they were involved."
The UK Defence Secretary, John Healey, earlier said that UK forces “played their part” to prevent escalation in last night’s mass Iranian ballistic missile strike on Israel.
But so far the Ministry of Defence has given no further detail of how they were involved."
At least five killed in central Beirut strike, as Israel says it is targeting Hezbollah
Three explosions were heard in the city's southern suburbs while a fourth hit a building close to central Beirut.
www.bbc.co.uk
Weststander
Well-known member
Iran (Hezbollah) have been launching 1,000's of miles into Israel for years from Lebanon.
aftershavedave
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #32
British forces were involved in thwarting Iran’s missile attack against Israel, the UK’s defence secretary has suggested.
In a carefully worded statement on Tuesday night, John Healey said: “British forces have this evening played their part in attempts to prevent further escalation in the Middle East.”
The statement did not go into military details on how British forces may have helped combat the barrage of 180 ballistic missiles launched by Iran in an attack that caused limited damage.
Hey, it is what it says (from the grauniad)
In a carefully worded statement on Tuesday night, John Healey said: “British forces have this evening played their part in attempts to prevent further escalation in the Middle East.”
The statement did not go into military details on how British forces may have helped combat the barrage of 180 ballistic missiles launched by Iran in an attack that caused limited damage.
Hey, it is what it says (from the grauniad)
Why? is it simply a question of money and the power positions of Jews in both countries? Genuine question.
Nor me neither.
1066familyman
Radio User
- Jan 15, 2008
- 15,235
Let's flip the question a bit.
When did it ever become UK Govt (Labour or Conservative) policy NOT to support Israel?
I'm surprised you're surprised tbh.
Since at least April when Iran last launched missiles at Israel and we were "involved". They said on the Today programme this morning that our involvement back then was agreed by Sunak and Starmer has retained the policy.
The "why" is because we're a strategic ally. Geopolitically we are dealing with basket case states (Lebanon and Syria) in the immediate vicinity while Egypt is no longer (currently) a sworn enemy of Israel.
We are supporting it as we have a large Zionist influence in UK politics, we see Israel as strategically important and maybe more significantly we are also the US's political lapdog
For those that dont have TikTok brain (decreasing attention span happening to to all of us including me) and want to understand US support and therefore our role support for Israel - this long explainer details how US became an unconditional supporter, supplier of Israel.
For those that dont have TikTok brain (decreasing attention span happening to to all of us including me) and want to understand US support and therefore our role support for Israel - this long explainer details how US became an unconditional supporter, supplier of Israel.
I would add that Israel absolutely needs to be defended.
It's their attacking I have a problem with. There we are both involved and not involved as I understand it. Starmer has limited arms sales and banned some types but not stopped it. I'm a LOT more uncomfortable with that.
It's their attacking I have a problem with. There we are both involved and not involved as I understand it. Starmer has limited arms sales and banned some types but not stopped it. I'm a LOT more uncomfortable with that.
1066familyman
Radio User
- Jan 15, 2008
- 15,235
Sorry to labour the point, but, you really can't see why we're involved? Seriously?
That's about as naive as some other poster's suggestion that, if only Hamas would return the hostages, and them and Hezbollah accept a two state solution, then the UN could then sort it all out! Lol.
Kalimantan Gull
Well-known member
I think its simply the way the world is, we have our allies and we help to defend them. Much of the history of the world is defined by alliances between nations. Israel is our ally because Palestine used to be our colony, because of 1945, because of residual hatred for what the Nazis did, because we include Israel within our greater western alliance, because ultimately we do what the USA wants us to do.
What is frustrating, is that we don't agree with how our ally is acting, there is huge public unease with what Israel is doing, but when push comes to shove the government supports them. Britain is particularly loyal to its allies, when the US invaded Iraq there were most in NATO who actively disagreed and refused to participate, not us.
I guess we take the view that however shitty Israel is, it would be worse if we didn't help and they were wiped out, then there would be a big powerful Islamic group in the ME and we wouldn't like that. I think many, like me, take the view that the only reason we seem to be in conflict with the muslim world is precisely because of our support for Israel, and without that animosity there would be no need for conflict between Islam and the west.