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[Technology] UK's last coal fired power station closes...



Brovion

In my defence, I was left unsupervised.
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Jul 6, 2003
19,888
It is worth pointing out that the heritage railway sector (which is a billion pound industry in the tourism sector across the UK, nothing to be sniffed at) is working on innovations to solve the coal issue, and has been since the supply of cheap Russian coal dried up in 2022. Currently ovoids formed of reformed coal dust are used by a number of limes, including the Bluebell, and there have been experiments with various other fuels. One of the most promising has been rape-based biomass on the Bure Valley in Norfolk. This isn’t emission free (burning anything isn’t emission free, ultimately) but it’s got potential. The issue is money, as with everything, this research isn’t cheap.
Correct. And whilst I appreciate that economic arguments don't cut much ice with a lot of Greens who only every look at problems from an environmental point of view it is worth pointing out that not only is it a billion-pound industry that employs (full and part-time) several thousand people, it also brings joy and happiness to millions more. Plus if you're a volunteer you can find companionship, friendship and a sense of purpose with your fellow volunteers. Helps to combat loneliness.

I know I'm pissing in the wind as for a lot of people these things don't count (they can go and do something else) but for me those intangible benefits alone more than outweigh the miniscule environmental damage that comes from burning a bit of coal, and yes, I'd love to see a coal mine in somewhere like South Wales producing coal just for the heritage railway industry. In return, just to prove I'm not a complete environmental Luddite, I'd like to ban all away travel to football, especially European travel. Stopping all those pointless and unnecessary journeys will make a real contribution, won't it?

Anyway, back on topic, obviously the ending of the use of coal for power generation is good news, regardless of what other countries are or aren't doing. However the ending of steel production is unalloyed bad news and I don't see how anyone can say opposite.
 




nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,600
Gods country fortnightly
It is worth pointing out that the heritage railway sector (which is a billion pound industry in the tourism sector across the UK, nothing to be sniffed at) is working on innovations to solve the coal issue, and has been since the supply of cheap Russian coal dried up in 2022. Currently ovoids formed of reformed coal dust are used by a number of limes, including the Bluebell, and there have been experiments with various other fuels. One of the most promising has been rape-based biomass on the Bure Valley in Norfolk. This isn’t emission free (burning anything isn’t emission free, ultimately) but it’s got potential. The issue is money, as with everything, this research isn’t cheap.
The amount of tiny and irrelevant from some hobby trains.

The area I’d like to see tackled is aviation, in particular premium air travel and private jets. There needs to be a hefty tax applied.

The fact is 1 percent of the world contribute 50 percent of all carbon emissions.

Take a return flight from London to Hong Kong, premium economy equates to 25,000 miles in a family car, first class equates to 80,000 miles. Private jets are off the scale
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,261
Goldstone
The irony, for many, is that Mrs Thatcher was right all along.

It was always obvious she was right. I think her mistake was simply not helping mining towns transition to some other economy.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
56,291
Faversham
the entire point of a steam train is they are running on the original old steam engines. an electric boiler negates this even if it were viable to swap in.

you might want to look up the total pollution and greenhouse emission of your internet use, then cut that.
You mean.....have some perspective?

No, that's not going to happen.

(This is a very weird thread. The conflation of the cost effectiveness of coal fired power stations, the demise of the UK coal industry, and the plight of heritage railways, in an incoherence pie.)
 






Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,229
On NSC for over two decades...
I would suggest converting to electric boilers or some other more environmentally friendly fuel.

This is a climate emergency. We can't say certain environmentally destructive things are okay, just because some people enjoy it.

Seriously, heritage railways don't even register when it comes to coal consumption globally. If it was just heritage railways consuming coal globally we wouldn't be talking about there being a climate emergency.

I applaud the fact that we are no longer using coal to generate electricity in this country, but I lament the fact that we aren't using our own local supplies for limited usage that we now have - importing crap foreign coal for that is environmental stupidity.
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,600
Gods country fortnightly
Seriously, heritage railways don't even register when it comes to coal consumption globally. If it was just heritage railways consuming coal globally we wouldn't be talking about there being a climate emergency.

I applaud the fact that we are no longer using coal to generate electricity in this country, but I lament the fact that we aren't using our own local supplies for limited usage that we now have - importing crap foreign coal for that is environmental stupidity.
I don't think we'll be using much coal in future

100% elec from renewables by 2030, its a tough target but we're giving it a good go. 9.6kw of new offshore wind approved last month (that's 3 nukes)...

I'll say one thing we need to stop subsidies for the insane Drax power plant

 






I don't think we'll be using much coal in future

100% elec from renewables by 2030, its a tough target but we're giving it a good go. 9.6kw of new offshore wind approved last month (that's 3 nukes)...

I'll say one thing we need to stop subsidies for the insane Drax power plant


Agree and agree with the green groups there.
 


dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,635
I don't think we'll be using much coal in future

100% elec from renewables by 2030, its a tough target but we're giving it a good go. 9.6kw of new offshore wind approved last month (that's 3 nukes)...

I'll say one thing we need to stop subsidies for the insane Drax power plant

It's an impossibility. There is no way on earth that the UK will have sufficient power from non-wind sources to supply the whole country when the wind isn't blowing. It may be possible to get 100% energy from renewables on days of reasonable winds and sunshine, but not for all day and every day.
 




nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,600
Gods country fortnightly
It's an impossibility. There is no way on earth that the UK will have sufficient power from non-wind sources to supply the whole country when the wind isn't blowing. It may be possible to get 100% energy from renewables on days of reasonable winds and sunshine, but not for all day and every day.
Net-zero is very possible when it comes to elec generation.

Its not just about offshore wind there will be more onshore wind, hydro, tidal. solar plus the planned x-links project. Then there is batteries, a few million people with home storage and the peak hour spike will be eliminated.

Yes, there may be times when some gas back up is needed, but there will be times when we'll have excess and this can be sold to others via inter-connectors.

Critically we need to also reduce demand and get insulating

You really can understand why the fossil fuel industry is all over the lobby groups masquerading as think tanks.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,034
Net-zero is very possible when it comes to elec generation.

Its not just about offshore wind there will be more onshore wind, hydro, tidal. solar plus the planned x-links project. Then there is batteries, a few million people with home storage and the peak hour spike will be eliminated.

Yes, there may be times when some gas back up is needed, but there will be times when we'll have excess and this can be sold to others via inter-connectors.

Critically we need to also reduce demand and get insulating

You really can understand why the fossil fuel industry is all over the lobby groups masquerading as think tanks.
need the surplus to charge up the batteries. though how many people do you know planning to get home battery storage?
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,229
On NSC for over two decades...
need the surplus to charge up the batteries. though how many people do you know planning to get home battery storage?

Batteries are great, but they aren't a panacea*. They'll quite happily keep your house going through the night during the summer months (charged off of the solar panels), but we're getting to the time of year when they'll merely reduce the demand you place on the importing electricity from the grid.


* said as a user and fan of home solar and battery installations.
 




CheeseRolls

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 27, 2009
6,234
Shoreham Beach
I get the sentiment of buy in steel and export the problem, but it isn't a straight one for one swap. Furnaces burn 24 by 7 regardless of demand for the end products, so keeping a furnace running which is running at less than full capacity is not a great move.

Net zero is not the same thing as zero emissions. The idea is to get the numbers as low as possible and then use carbon capture to deal with what is left and in all likelyhood carbon reduction. A few old steam engines will not make much difference either way and they are not worth working up a head of steam over, (see what I did there?).
 


BrightonCottager

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2013
2,783
Brighton
Just to add to the tourism sector cash, there are loads of campsites near to the Bluebell railway that add it in their 'things to see' blurb. So there are people staying at an 'eco friendly' campsite with compost loos & not flying abroad for their holiday visiting this environmental catastrophe & taking a trip on a steam train. I only know of one actual 'eco friendly' campsite in the surrounding 12 miles. Most say 'eco friendly' when they actually mean, take your rubbish back home. They also advertise 'campfires welcomed' but charge £9 for 7 logs & £4 for kindling. A lot of them are making a lot of money from pretending to be 'eco'.
Are campfires to be banned as well? That's not a question to you @A1X just a general question to certain others. 😁
Hope so. They are one of the main reasons I've avoided camping since I left the Scouts 50 years ago. Don't get me started on firepits, so to speak.
 


BrightonCottager

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Sep 30, 2013
2,783
Brighton


Sid and the Sharknados

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Sep 4, 2022
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Darlington
Private Eye has been writing about the Drax greenwash for years. Has a BBC journalist suddenly started reading it?
The article and panorama episode is from a couple of years ago.

But you're right that Private Eye were going on about it for years before that. It's a disgrace (Drax and their pellet supply, not Private Eye).
 




nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,600
Gods country fortnightly
need the surplus to charge up the batteries. though how many people do you know planning to get home battery storage?
Well i know quite a few. In summer you export the solar surplus, in winter you charge those batteries at 7pkw/h. Battery only installs recently became VAT free.

Crucially I've only ever drawn from the grid in the 4-7pm peak hour twice in the past year, Christmas Day and Boxing Day
 


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