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[Misc] The 'Class System' Exclusively British?



C

Cheeky Monkey

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
23,856
Quote from article on the BBC yesterday:

"The British society mechanism never seems to change and it doesn't allow people to move up or down,"
"We understand it in a weirdly unspoken way that other countries don't."

I've never got how it's apparently just a British thing, it may not be called the 'class system' overseas but daylight snobbery exists big time Stateside for example, the schools you went to, the background of your family etc. and surely exists across the wider world, it's just what societies do for the most part, human behaviour surely.
 




H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
2,430
I've studied English for eight years in primary school, two weeks at university and three months at a Folk high school.

A lot of that time is spent studying British culture: watching movies, doing Shakespeare plays, sitting in different groups in the class analyzing some part of UK or some part of British culture.

Class is always discussed. Not only from the English teachers from Sweden but also from the English English teacher we had over at the Folk high school, who quite firmly told us that "in the UK class and hierarchy matters in a way Swedes could never imagine".

Roleplaying as parts of various classes... remembering a bunch of hats and who they belong to... despair over school uniforms, no free university education, no free school meals.. learning different words and behaviours that belong to different classes..

Thinking of it, its actually pretty f***ing weird. We spend a lot more time looking at your weird island than actually learning English grammar and that kind of stuff.

(that said, Scandinavia might be further off from how a "normal" class society works than is the case with Britain)
 
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SkirlieWirlie

SkirlieWirlie

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2024
131
Yep, my experience too working off and on in the US. In addition to the ethnic and often openly racist hiearchies, very much a class system in evidence within the caucasian population. And even more so in France. Huge snobbery and in the companies I've worked for, based on the schools you attended and your position in the business, to the point of blanking you when passing in the office.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

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Jul 21, 2003
35,994
its utter bollocks. all societies have strata, often along types of work, region, wealth, race, even gender.

the British class system was originally based on land ownership and family heritage, product of fuedalism. pretty common across all europe since mediveal times. other regions have it in different forms, example India's caste system. now the system is largely perpetuated in the minds of anti-class warriors that want to blame things on it. and upper-middle class authors seeking something to write about.
 






Sid and the Sharknados

Sid and the Sharknados

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Sep 4, 2022
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Han Solo said:
I've studied English for eight years in primary school, two weeks at university and three months at a Folk high school.

A lot of that time is spent studying British culture: watching movies, doing Shakespeare plays, sitting in different groups in the class analyzing some part of UK or some part of British culture.

Class is always discussed. Not only from the English teachers from Sweden but also from the English English teacher we had over at the Folk high school, who quite firmly told us that "in the UK class and hierarchy matters in a way Swedes could never imagine".

Roleplaying as parts of various classes... remembering a bunch of hats and who they belong to... despair over school uniforms, no free university education, no free school meals.. learning different words and behaviours that belong to different classes..

Thinking of it, its actually pretty f***ing weird. We spend a lot more time looking at your weird island than actually learning English grammar and that kind of stuff.
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I'm generalising massively here, but I would expect the sort of English person who goes to teach about English culture in a foreign school to be the sort of person who obsesses over these things much more than any normal person would. Basically I'm saying I'd expect them to have a massive chip on their shoulder.

At least nobody wears hats anymore. :lolol:
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
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They have the same in all countries / societies. In most other places it is more overtly race or caste based. But it all stems from the same place of snobbery and fear as our class system.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

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SkirlieWirlie said:
Yep, my experience too working off and on in the US. In addition to the ethnic and often openly racist hiearchies, very much a class system in evidence within the caucasian population. And even more so in France. Huge snobbery and in the companies I've worked for, based on the schools you attended and your position in the business, to the point of blanking you when passing in the office.
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It is the same everywhere, just dressed up differently, with different rules.

I liked to think there was little class bias in Vancouver when I lived there (the head of department chatted with the cleaner, unheard of in the UK at the time) but of course the attitude to 'East Indians' (Sikhs, largely farmworkers) was rather different. And the anti-Jew prejudice was extreme among older folk.

Humans don't need long to identify some 'other' they can look down on. It's what we do.

I'm sure it is the same in Sweden, albeit the 'other' are perhaps not ordinary working folk.
 




SkirlieWirlie

SkirlieWirlie

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2024
131
Sid and the Sharknados said:
I'm generalising massively here, but I would expect the sort of English person who goes to teach about English culture in a foreign school to be the sort of person who obsesses over these things much more than any normal person would. Basically I'm saying I'd expect them to have a massive chip on their shoulder.

At least nobody wears hats anymore. :lolol:
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download.jpeg


🤔
 


Eeyore

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Apr 5, 2014
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Sid and the Sharknados said:
I'm generalising massively here, but I would expect the sort of English person who goes to teach about English culture in a foreign school to be the sort of person who obsesses over these things much more than any normal person would. Basically I'm saying I'd expect them to have a massive chip on their shoulder.

At least nobody wears hats anymore. :lolol:
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I was thinking that.

In my years of breath I have never experienced class prejudice. Except when I was blanked for being a working class boy at a County League cricket club all those years back. But it was a very long time ago.

The class wars are played out by extremes in society, much like the 'woke' wars. Most of us don't give a flying flamingo. I wonder if @Han Solo was taught how we all doff our caps or bowler hats each morning and say 'how do you do'. Anyway, must dash, the chimney sweep boy has arrived and there's a pretty hussy outside signing 'Who will buy my wonderful flowers ?'. I'm sure I could strike a deal with her, haw, haw, haw. Toodle pip.
 


mikeyjh

mikeyjh

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Dec 17, 2008
4,607
Llanymawddwy
SkirlieWirlie said:
And although I've no direct experience, have read much on the caste system in India which would seem to be even more difficult to be socially mobile within...
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NIgh on impossible and when you experience an interatcion between a high and low cast, it's quite eye opening. 'Serve me' was how a boss of mine suggested to a waiter that he was ready to order. I was at the house of another boss, he introduced me to the various members of his family and there was another female knocking around, just going to and fro, not even acknowledged, a member of staff apparently.

India is a strange place to spend time working in when you're from Europe - I always had the same driver for whatever period I was there, he was waiting for me 24 hours a day basically, would spend most of his time living in a room in Delhi sending what little money he had back to his family, somehow always looking immaculate in his colonial style uniform and hat. At first he was very reticent to talk to me but over the years I think became friends in some way, he started bringing me flowers when he picked me up, which was nice, and odd. Anyway, I digress, you do wonder what potential Mr Negi's family had in that system, a bit sad really.
 




Kalimantan Gull

Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,429
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Of course it's universal. In many parts of Indonesia people use different languages depending on whether they are talking up class, down a class or to someone in your own class. I'm Bali the child- naming system differs dependent on class, so everyone automatically knows which class someone is in
 




The Antikythera Mechanism

The Antikythera Mechanism

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Aug 7, 2003
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Dont forget the nouveau-riche. I know a few and its all Rolexes. ostentatious cars & houses and 7 star Dubai hotels. Not sure if their wealth allows them move up the system, but it certainly opens quite a few doors.
 




B

BiffyBoy

Active member
Aug 20, 2012
205
Cheeky Monkey said:
Quote from article on the BBC yesterday:

"The British society mechanism never seems to change and it doesn't allow people to move up or down,"
"We understand it in a weirdly unspoken way that other countries don't."

I've never got how it's apparently just a British thing, it may not be called the 'class system' overseas but daylight snobbery exists big time Stateside for example, the schools you went to, the background of your family etc. and surely exists across the wider world, it's just what societies do for the most part, human behaviour surely.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's not exclusively British and exists in other countries.

One big difference from living in the US is accents. They don't typically change that much between classes. They're pretty distinct in the UK, so much so that you can usually tell who has attended a public/fee-paying school.
 




Stato

Stato

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2011
7,347
Cheeky Monkey said:
Quote from article on the BBC yesterday:

"The British society mechanism never seems to change and it doesn't allow people to move up or down,"
"We understand it in a weirdly unspoken way that other countries don't."

I've never got how it's apparently just a British thing, it may not be called the 'class system' overseas but daylight snobbery exists big time Stateside for example, the schools you went to, the background of your family etc. and surely exists across the wider world, it's just what societies do for the most part, human behaviour surely.
Click to expand...
The key part seems to be the second sentence. All countries have class structures, but ours has matured over centuries to be incredibly complex. The complexities are seldom spoken aloud, but tacitly understood by the British. Other countries are just left baffled at what's going on. The Indians wrote down the rules of the caste system. The British didn't, so they always have plausible deniability. Putting the rules down on paper, like Nancy Mitford did, is ironically, terribly non-U.

A lot of our literature, drama and comedy is obsessed with the class system. Like the BBC, we just love talking about ourselves. However, such class analysis and critiques are subtle and so much knowledge is assumed and left unsaid that it can go unnoticed by those who aren't in on the codes. We're a nation that won't form a queue at a bar, because we've all agreed to pretend that there isn't a queue whilst understanding, without speaking a word, that a rigid queue is in place even though it's not physically apparent. Those not in on this arrangement can commit a terrible faux pas and offend everyone around them, whilst never knowing they have done so, because despite the outrage felt, usually nobody will say a word, they will just judge silently. What chance do outsiders stand?
 
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Albion my Albion

Albion my Albion

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Feb 6, 2016
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Calling out the sins of others doesn't excuse your own missteps.
 




Birdie Boy

Birdie Boy

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2011
4,368
In Saudi, the class runs from Saudis at the top, then white, then Indians, then Pakistanis and then Bangladesh. There are others but here's my point. If a white guy hits an Indians car it is the Indians fault. If a saudi hits any non saudi car it's the non Saudis fault.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
8,617
Evolutionary biology, in my mind explains, pretty much all human behaviour and especially this.

Watch any Attenborough documentary about a troupe of apes. Incredibly hierarchical. And our genes and the way we've evolved over 10's of millions of years have told us to behave in this way. A few decades of vaguely understanding this this is unhealthy and unfair in the modern era cannot hope to compete with behaviours so strongly embedded
 


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