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[Politics] The Labour Government



The Clamp

The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
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West is BEST
As for Starmer’s freebies, I understand he’s declared them etc and technically he’s done nothing wrong but read the room, man!

The cuts to pensioner’s heating allowance, more cuts to come, nurses using food banks etc.

Whomever’s fault this is, Tory’s overspending etc, it looks absolutely terrible. And for luxury items too. Designer spectacles and tickets to football matches.

I am giving Labour the benefit of the doubt and they definitely need time to get the economy under control but these freebies aren’t doing them any favours.
 
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A

A mex eyecan

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2011
3,814
The Clamp said:
As for Starmer’s freebies, I understand he’s declared them etc and technically he’s done nothing wrong but read the room, man!

The cuts to pensioner’s heating allowance, more cuts to come, nurses using food banks etc.

Whomever’s fault this is, Tory’s overspending etc, it looks absolutely terrible. And for luxury items too. Designer spectacles and tickets to football matches.

I am giving Labour the benefit of the doubt and they definitely need time to get the economy under control but these freebies aren’t doing them any favours.

Talk about doing yourself no favours.
Click to expand...
take it you’re not too impressed then 😀
 




Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
57,161
Back in Sussex
WATFORD zero said:
I do wonder how many of the people OUTRAGED by Sue Gray's £170K salary and 20K pay rise were equally OUTRAGED when Dominic Cummings and his sidekick Lee Cain both got pay rises well in excess of £40K in 2020 to take their salaries to between £140K and £150K (inflation adjusted to 2024 £173K - £185K ).

I'm willing to bet that it would be an entirely different group of OUTRAGED people and there's nobody who has posted their DISGUST at both on NSC :laugh:
Click to expand...

Who is outraged, out of interest? I'm certainly not. It's a very senior role with a lot of responsibility. I've said on here, many times over the years, that senior government positions should pay far more than they do, more reflective of the significance of their roles. If nothing else, it may enable multi-millionaires to be able to clothe their own family, and not have to rely on handouts for prescription eyewear.

My gripe with you is your attempts to talk down Gray's salary by comparing it to civil servants because, despite your desparate squiriming, she's still not a civil servant. And by raising her salary again, you've further highlighted that. Gray isn't remunerated according to the well-established civil service pay bandings - that'll be because she's not a civil servant - but Special Adviser pay bands. As has been publicised over the last few days, these have recently been re-assessed, which permitted Gray to earn what she is.

The bands were previously:

The Cabinet Office is responsible for Special Adviser Pay Policy. There are four pay bands for special advisers as set out below.​
​
Pay Band 1 Junior Special Adviser - £40,500 to £53,000​
Pay Band 2 Special Adviser - £57,000 to £84,000​
Pay Band 3 Senior Special Adviser - £73,000 to £102,000​
Pay Band 4 Special Adviser Leadership - £102,000 to £145,000​
​
The people who ARE upset about Gray's salary are, it seems, all within Starmer's nor-so-happy government as Chris Mason detailed earlier...



This is further expanded upon in his blog on the BBC website today. I'm sure you've read it, but in case not...
​
But this story, at its crux, is not about her salary per se.​
​
It is about the levels of upset and anger - fair or otherwise - about her and her role at the top of government.​
​
That is what motivated the person who tipped me off - at considerable professional risk - to tell me what I am now telling you.​
​
And I know from other conversations I have had - and members of our BBC team have had - that this person is far from alone.​
​
And that tells you something about the fractious relationships among some at the top of government, less than three months after Labour won the election.​

www.bbc.co.uk

Chris Mason: Why finding out about Sue Gray’s salary really matters

Chris Mason explains why the story about the prime minister's chief of staff earning £170,000 a year matters.
www.bbc.co.uk

Perhaps you should be directing your "Calm down - nothing to see here" into No.10, rather than NSC.
 


Chicken Run

Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,731
Valley of Hangleton
Bozza said:
Who is outraged, out of interest? I'm certainly not. It's a very senior role with a lot of responsibility. I've said on here, many times over the years, that senior government positions should pay far more than they do, more reflective of the significance of their roles. If nothing else, it may enable multi-millionaires to be able to clothe their own family, and not have to rely on handouts for prescription eyewear.

My gripe with you is your attempts to talk down Gray's salary by comparing it to civil servants because, despite your desparate squiriming, she's still not a civil servant. And by raising her salary again, you've further highlighted that. Gray isn't remunerated according to the well-established civil service pay bandings - that'll be because she's not a civil servant - but Special Adviser pay bands. As has been publicised over the last few days, these have recently been re-assessed, which permitted Gray to earn what she is.

The bands were previously:

The Cabinet Office is responsible for Special Adviser Pay Policy. There are four pay bands for special advisers as set out below.​
​
Pay Band 1 Junior Special Adviser - £40,500 to £53,000​
Pay Band 2 Special Adviser - £57,000 to £84,000​
Pay Band 3 Senior Special Adviser - £73,000 to £102,000​
Pay Band 4 Special Adviser Leadership - £102,000 to £145,000​
​
The people who ARE upset about Gray's salary are, it seems, all within Starmer's nor-so-happy government as Chris Mason detailed earlier...



This is further expanded upon in his blog on the BBC website today. I'm sure you've read it, but in case not...
​
But this story, at its crux, is not about her salary per se.​
​
It is about the levels of upset and anger - fair or otherwise - about her and her role at the top of government.​
​
That is what motivated the person who tipped me off - at considerable professional risk - to tell me what I am now telling you.​
​
And I know from other conversations I have had - and members of our BBC team have had - that this person is far from alone.​
​
And that tells you something about the fractious relationships among some at the top of government, less than three months after Labour won the election.​

www.bbc.co.uk

Chris Mason: Why finding out about Sue Gray’s salary really matters

Chris Mason explains why the story about the prime minister's chief of staff earning £170,000 a year matters.
www.bbc.co.uk

Perhaps you should be directing your "Calm down - nothing to see here" into No.10, rather than NSC.
Click to expand...

I genuinely wouldn’t be at all surprised, knowing the effort Mr WZ goes to in trolling this board with his rhetoric, that he in some capacity is connected to the current tenants of His Majesty’s Government!
 
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Chicken Run

Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
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Jul 17, 2003
19,731
Valley of Hangleton
The Clamp said:
As for Starmer’s freebies, I understand he’s declared them etc and technically he’s done nothing wrong but read the room, man!

The cuts to pensioner’s heating allowance, more cuts to come, nurses using food banks etc.

Whomever’s fault this is, Tory’s overspending etc, it looks absolutely terrible. And for luxury items too. Designer spectacles and tickets to football matches.

I am giving Labour the benefit of the doubt and they definitely need time to get the economy under control but these freebies aren’t doing them any favours.
Click to expand...
TC, i trust you didn’t fill that ditch in?
 


Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
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Jul 4, 2003
57,161
Back in Sussex
Is it PotG? said:
What a guy!
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-labour-conservatives-uk-politics-latest-news
Click to expand...
I'm not sure anyone could have an issue with a Prime Minister doing as he has done for Arsenal home games. As he says, someone of his position simply can't arrive, sit and mingle in concourses as a regular fan any more. The security risk, and cost of mitigation, would be very high.

It doesn't explain all the hospitality freebies he's taken at clubs all over the country watching Arsenal before he was Prime Minister, and the security briefing changed, though. He could have paid for those tickets had he really wanted to do so.
 






Is it PotG?

Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,338
Sussex by the Sea
Bozza said:
I'm not sure anyone could have an issue with a Prime Minister doing as he has done for Arsenal home games. As he says, someone of his position simply can't arrive, sit and mingle in concourses as a regular fan any more. The security risk, and cost of mitigation, would be very high.

It doesn't explain all the hospitality freebies he's taken at clubs all over the country watching Arsenal before he was Prime Minister, and the security briefing changed, though. He could have paid for those tickets had he really wanted to do so.
Click to expand...
I agree to a point with the first paragraph, however with responsibility come some sacrifices.
When you have the second biggest job in the country (behind Man Ure boss) then you might not be able to rock up week in and week out as a fan.
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
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Bozza said:
I'm not sure anyone could have an issue with a Prime Minister doing as he has done for Arsenal home games. As he says, someone of his position simply can't arrive, sit and mingle in concourses as a regular fan any more. The security risk, and cost of mitigation, would be very high.

It doesn't explain all the hospitality freebies he's taken at clubs all over the country watching Arsenal before he was Prime Minister, and the security briefing changed, though. He could have paid for those tickets had he really wanted to do so.
Click to expand...
I think it’s fair that someone so high profile would be in a hospitality box. More than fair, vital really.

But when austerity hits, the first thing ordinary folk give up is luxuries like season tickets and entertainment.

Perhaps he could watch the game at home instead?
 


Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
20,533
Playing snooker
Sirnormangall said:
I’ve no problem with Sue Gray’s salary. Top jobs in the private sector would pay much more and I was particularly pleased to see that she’s paid more than the deputy PM
Click to expand...
Not surprisingly, I hear Angela Rayner in particular is struggling to share in your pleasure.

But above and beyond the grubby issue of salaries, what is really exercising Ange is the fact that when people ask if anyone has seen the Deputy Prime Minister, it seems they aren’t referring to her.

Goodness only knows who it is at - or near the top of government - that could be briefing against Sue? It can’t be Angela because she’s still too busy being furious about the official photo of Free Gear Keir’s trip to the White House last week that showed SKS, David Lammy and errr, Sue Gray in high level talks with Biden’s top team.
 




Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
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Jul 4, 2003
57,161
Back in Sussex
The Clamp said:
As for Starmer’s freebies, I understand he’s declared them etc and technically he’s done nothing wrong but read the room, man!

The cuts to pensioner’s heating allowance, more cuts to come, nurses using food banks etc.

Whomever’s fault this is, Tory’s overspending etc, it looks absolutely terrible. And for luxury items too. Designer spectacles and tickets to football matches.

I am giving Labour the benefit of the doubt and they definitely need time to get the economy under control but these freebies aren’t doing them any favours.
Click to expand...
Nailed it.

They've taken over a country in a desperate state - the list of patch-up jobs required is almost endless.

They've told us, repeatedly, it's going to be a rocky period whilst the rebuilding happens. But all semblance of "we're all in this together" has gone. Whilst some of the poorest OAPs are facing a bleak winter, Starmer has perpetuated an image of someone who'll take any freebie going, the more expensive the better.

If you want take the people with you, you simply don't behave as he has, regardless of how good those designer glasses frames may look or how much your Swifty kids want you to call in a favour for some gig tickets.
 


P

pocketseagull

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2014
1,360
Bozza said:
It doesn't explain all the hospitality freebies he's taken at clubs all over the country watching Arsenal before he was Prime Minister, and the security briefing changed, though. He could have paid for those tickets had he really wanted to do so.
Click to expand...
As pointed out in The Guardian today it also creates a potential conflict of interest. For example he was given hospitality by us and the next month Bloom was giving evidence at a Select Committee hearing on The Football Governance Bill. Those two things may be completely unconnected but it shows why politicians should have a 'just say no' policy on gifts. I mean they're supposed to be public servants not Hollywood stars.
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
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Bozza said:
Nailed it.

They've taken over a country in a desperate state - the list of patch-up jobs required is almost endless.

They've told us, repeatedly, it's going to be a rocky period whilst the rebuilding happens. But all semblance of "we're all in this together" has gone. Whilst some of the poorest OAPs are facing a bleak winter, Starmer has perpetuated an image of someone who'll take any freebie going, the more expensive the better.

If you want take the people with you, you simply don't behave as he has, regardless of how good those designer glasses frames may look or how much your Swifty kids want you to call in a favour for some gig tickets.
Click to expand...
I did a bit more reading about the pension heating allowance.

I didn’t realise quite how fine the line is between those eligible and those who will simply not get it.

While in principal I think means testing for the allowance is a good idea, I didn’t appreciate quite how many people will struggle.

And for our PM to be living quite the high life, gratis? It’s not good at all.
 




jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,189
The Clamp said:
I did a bit more reading about the pension heating allowance.

I didn’t realise quite how fine the line is between those eligible and those who will simply not get it.

While in principal I think means testing for the allowance is a good idea, I didn’t appreciate quite how many people will struggle.

And for our PM to be living quite the high life, gratis? It’s not good at all.
Click to expand...
When this story broke I did give lots of examples of how tight that threshold is and received a lot of pushback about how “well, we don’t need it so I don’t care”. The replies were blindingly partisan from Labour supporters.

Labour could’ve said “we propose to cut off the head of every 5th Labour Party member to save on woolly hat manufacturing costs” and the usual cabal on here would’ve defended it as long as it wasn’t them.

A lot of people showed themselves to be very selfish and ill-informed about the gravity of the WFA decision.

It will directly cause thousands of deaths.

This is what I’m angry about, not Starmer taking freebies or clothes for his wife, which as I said I don’t personally give a shit about.
 
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The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
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Jan 11, 2016
26,050
West is BEST
This one made me chuckle. For no particular reason. I do like the alliteration though.


Name of donor: Global Media and Entertainment Ltd
Address of donor: 30 Leicester Square, London WC2H 7LA
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Four tickets to the Jingle Bell Ball with hospitality, value £800
Date received: 10 December 2023
Date accepted: 10 December 2023

And this one made me spit my tea out. £2k for an afternoon at the footy.


“Two tickets for pre-match hospitality in the Chairman’s Lounge and to the match (value is estimated), value £2,000”


These fuckers don’t breathe the same air as the rest of us .
 


Is it PotG?

Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,338
Sussex by the Sea




The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
26,050
West is BEST
Is it PotG? said:
Yet mention the fact that they're all the same, snouts in the trough merchants on here and the hardcore yoghurt knitters will be apoplectic.
The grown-ups are well and truly in the room.
Click to expand...
I certainly don’t think anyone was as bad as the last few Tory governments but yes, they all certainly like to live the high life at someone else’s expense. It’s out of control.
 


Mr Bridger

Mr Bridger

Sound of the suburbs
Feb 25, 2013
4,742
Earth


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