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[Albion] We need a settled defensive unit



Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
8,617
In some ways this a funny assertion to start a thread, we’ve not conceded masses of goals. However we are coughing up a large number of high quality chances and it seems only a matter of time before we start conceding more than our forwards have a chance to get at the other end

I found last night alarming, less in the individual errors made by Steele, Igor etc as those are priced into to risk taking football for me. But, as a collective, we were pulled out of shape badly at times and were lucky not to be punished. The structure has also looked pretty wobbly in several league games, for example Hinsh wondering infield from LB and nobody covering the gap several times

The way I would go with it if I were the manager would be to pick a back 4 and covering midfield 2, and stick with them for 10 or so games, league and cup to try and get that base understanding each other.

It would be something like

-------------Verbruggen

Veltman Van Hecke Dunk Estupinan

-----------Baleba Wieffer

I don’t mind if he’d prefer Ferdi in there or Hinsh. I don't really mean to discuss the personnel. But I’d like to see us work on our new structure with settled base in this part of the pitch. Pray for no injuries for a month or so!

Up front, of course, we can continue to perm in 4, from about 10, on either a form based or horses for courses selection policy
 




Cowfold Seagull

Cowfold Seagull

Fan of the 17 bus
Apr 22, 2009
22,111
Cowfold
Nobby Cybergoat said:
In some ways this a funny assertion to start a thread, we’ve not conceded masses of goals. However we are coughing up a large number of high quality chances and it seems only a matter of time before we start conceding more than our forwards have a chance to get at the other end

I found last night alarming, less in the individual errors made by Steele, Igor etc as those are priced into to risk taking football for me. But, as a collective, we were pulled out of shape badly at times and were lucky not to be punished. The structure has also looked pretty wobbly in several league games, for example Hinsh wondering infield from LB and nobody covering the gap several times

The way I would go with it if I were the manager would be to pick a back 4 and covering midfield 2, and stick with them for 10 or so games, league and cup to try and get that base understanding each other.

It would be something like

-------------Verbruggen

Veltman Van Hecke Dunk Estupinan

-----------Baleba Wieffer

I don’t mind if he’d prefer Ferdi in there or Hinsh. I don't really mean to discuss the personnel. But I’d like to see us work on our new structure with settled base in this part of the pitch. Pray for no injuries for a month or so!

Up front, of course, we can continue to perm in 4, from about 10, on either a form based or horses for courses selection policy
Click to expand...
Yep l understnd your reasoning. Personally as far as individual players are concerned, l would probably put Ferdi in at right back as he will be more inclined to play as wing back and get forward if necessary.
 




SeagullsoverLondon

SeagullsoverLondon

......
NSC Patron
Jun 20, 2021
3,854
Nobby Cybergoat said:
In some ways this a funny assertion to start a thread, we’ve not conceded masses of goals. However we are coughing up a large number of high quality chances and it seems only a matter of time before we start conceding more than our forwards have a chance to get at the other end

I found last night alarming, less in the individual errors made by Steele, Igor etc as those are priced into to risk taking football for me. But, as a collective, we were pulled out of shape badly at times and were lucky not to be punished. The structure has also looked pretty wobbly in several league games, for example Hinsh wondering infield from LB and nobody covering the gap several times

The way I would go with it if I were the manager would be to pick a back 4 and covering midfield 2, and stick with them for 10 or so games, league and cup to try and get that base understanding each other.

It would be something like

-------------Verbruggen

Veltman Van Hecke Dunk Estupinan

-----------Baleba Wieffer

I don’t mind if he’d prefer Ferdi in there or Hinsh. I don't really mean to discuss the personnel. But I’d like to see us work on our new structure with settled base in this part of the pitch. Pray for no injuries for a month or so!

Up front, of course, we can continue to perm in 4, from about 10, on either a form based or horses for courses selection policy
Click to expand...
I think you play Veltman for the games we are going to have less control and / or possession and Jack for the games we are likely to dominate. Lamptey as sub if we are chasing the game .

On the left, I think Ferdi probably starts ahead of Pervis as the moment.

From last night, the biggest issue is who plays CB when Dunk or JPVH are injured. Definitely not Igor, so I guess Velts, then Webster.
 






Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
8,617
SeagullsoverLondon said:
I think you play Veltman for the games we are going to have less control and / or possession and Jack for the games we are likely to dominate. Lamptey as sub if we are chasing the game .

On the left, I think Ferdi probably starts ahead of Pervis as the moment.

From last night, the biggest issue is who plays CB when Dunk or JPVH are injured. Definitely not Igor, so I guess Velts, then Webster.
Click to expand...
Ok maybe. But i'm trying to make a point less about team selection, than the need for a bit more familiarity. It's really about the need to pick a group of 6, now (touch wood) players are coming back from injury and let them get used to our new system

Hinsh has done a great job, but i'm not sure shunting around our back line and having umpteen different midfield combos already is helping us be defensively organised. I totally get this has been down to injury.
 


T

tigertim68

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2012
2,619
SeagullsoverLondon said:
I think you play Veltman for the games we are going to have less control and / or possession and Jack for the games we are likely to dominate. Lamptey as sub if we are chasing the game .

On the left, I think Ferdi probably starts ahead of Pervis as the moment.

From last night, the biggest issue is who plays CB when Dunk or JPVH are injured. Definitely not Igor, so I guess Velts, then Webster.
Click to expand...
Every team we have played have targeted JH , and last nite wolves did as well , he is not quick enough to be a full back, so the sooner we play proper full backs with pace , the better our defence will bec
 


Marshy

Marshy

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
19,947
FRUIT OF THE BLOOM
Weiffer, Baleba and Oriley when fit will stiffen us up for sure.

But we do play a high line at times, if the press is not perfect its so easy to drop it in behind and we are all running towards our own goal...

We will get better at it for sure

However we will be on the end of some hidings i agree until then
 




Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
8,617
Marshy said:
Weiffer, Baleba and Oriley when fit will stiffen us up for sure.

But we do play a high line at times, if the press is not perfect its so easy to drop it in behind and we are all running towards our own goal...

We will get better at it for sure

However we will be on the end of some hidings i agree until then
Click to expand...
I might be just looking at the negatives here (that we’ll very likely concede lots of goals playing that high) rather than the positives (we’ll win the ball back high up a lot and create a lot of chances)

But I do think some pace and lungs in the full back and centre midfield positions is the best insurance we have against being continually shredded by a top side
 


R

Reddleman

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
2,170
I would start with proper left back going forward. Now Pervis is fit and Ferdi is back I don’t want to see Hinshelwood at left back again. Likewise Veltman or Ferdi at right back.

Teams are exploiting Hinshelwood now.
 








H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
2,431
Reddleman said:
I would start with proper left back going forward. Now Pervis is fit and Ferdi is back I don’t want to see Hinshelwood at left back again. Likewise Veltman or Ferdi at right back.

Teams are exploiting Hinshelwood now.
Click to expand...
Well.. they're trying.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
8,617
Terry Butcher Tribute Act said:
Are we referring to the 1 chance Ipswich created against our first choice defence, a blistering counter attack that would have been a brilliant individual goal?

There's things to work on but this is an overreaction imho. Last night was our B defence and goalie. Was never going to be as solid. And it was our own passing causing us problems
Click to expand...
I was referring to the chances Everton missed, but also the number of time Man Utd stung us on transition.

By common consensus, we've not been punished as we might have been this season. Even Crawley caused us real problems.

Fair point about Ipswich. They offered surprisingly little. And fair point, that there's no point lumping the A defence in with the B defence.

But I think the pressing game is leading us to being pulled out of shape a little too much. Of course the pressing is getting us the ball a lot and I think is working well from an attacking point of view. I just wonder if we can get a situation where we can play a settled side, in particular the primarily defensive players for a few games, we might get a bit more used to who should be going where, when. Maybe then some of the dogs dinner defensive structure we've seen at times this season will improve.
 




L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
22,778
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
I think we are reasonably settled currently - some changes at full back because of issues at left back with Pervis recovery and Ferdi newness - and centre mid is down to Wieffer injury and Gilmour transfer. All these pretty unavoidable
 




dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,424
Burgess Hill
Nobby Cybergoat said:
In some ways this a funny assertion to start a thread, we’ve not conceded masses of goals. However we are coughing up a large number of high quality chances and it seems only a matter of time before we start conceding more than our forwards have a chance to get at the other end

I found last night alarming, less in the individual errors made by Steele, Igor etc as those are priced into to risk taking football for me. But, as a collective, we were pulled out of shape badly at times and were lucky not to be punished. The structure has also looked pretty wobbly in several league games, for example Hinsh wondering infield from LB and nobody covering the gap several times

The way I would go with it if I were the manager would be to pick a back 4 and covering midfield 2, and stick with them for 10 or so games, league and cup to try and get that base understanding each other.

It would be something like

-------------Verbruggen

Veltman Van Hecke Dunk Estupinan

-----------Baleba Wieffer

I don’t mind if he’d prefer Ferdi in there or Hinsh. I don't really mean to discuss the personnel. But I’d like to see us work on our new structure with settled base in this part of the pitch. Pray for no injuries for a month or so!

Up front, of course, we can continue to perm in 4, from about 10, on either a form based or horses for courses selection policy
Click to expand...
League Cup at this stage is always going to be used to give fringe squad players some game time……..
 


dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,424
Burgess Hill
London Irish said:
I think we are reasonably settled currently - some changes at full back because of issues at left back with Pervis recovery and Ferdi newness - and centre mid is down to Wieffer injury and Gilmour transfer. All these pretty unavoidable
Click to expand...
Agree. Ferdi in and Pervis getting fitter, Wieffer back and with Hinshelwood probably then vying for a midfield spot with Baleba and things look very different
 






H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
2,431
Reddleman said:
Not to be harsh on him but first goal last night and Man United goal were on him
Click to expand...
First goal last night is never on him and all about our players leaving him in a 1v2 that became a 1.5v3 once Moder woke up and Guedes joined the party.
Every team we've played so far has put all their eggs in the "lets harrass their young full back" basket.

Unfortunately for them, Jack has dealt with it way too well and no one has been able to beat us.
 


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