Weststander
Well-known member
The Guardian now report that the failure to impact assess means:
[Politics] Would YOU be happy to pay more income tax so OAPs could keep their fuel payments?
- Thread starter Guinness Boy
- Start date
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That is idiotic.
Labour trashing their own good policy by failing to do due diligence.
Disabled and vulnerable pensioners must and should be looked after.
Utter fail for Labour in than respect.
If you aren’t measuring it, you can’t manage it.
Not good.
Jesus you are a right plum sometimes Clampy, hope you never find out about pensioners Xmas bonus you’ll have a heart attack !Well, they’re out there. And they’re laughing at us.
Winter fuel payment: We spend it on holidays, say some pensioners
Some pensioners say they don't need the extra cash of up to £300 - and want better means testing.www.bbc.co.uk
It’s my opinion and I’ll live with it.
I am well aware that it is not a popular opinion and I accept any criticism coming my way.
Of course, the fact that I’m correct makes it that bit easier.
Which OAPs?
I would be happier if there was a way of ensuring all OAPs on low incomes took the benefits to which they are entitled and so were then able to take the WFP.
So, because the question relates to all OAPs my answer would be No. Rephrase the question to ‘Would I pay more tax so that OAPs on low incomes could have WFP?’ and it would be Yes.
I’d pay more tax to make sure young working families on low incomes got more support.
I would be happier if there was a way of ensuring all OAPs on low incomes took the benefits to which they are entitled and so were then able to take the WFP.
So, because the question relates to all OAPs my answer would be No. Rephrase the question to ‘Would I pay more tax so that OAPs on low incomes could have WFP?’ and it would be Yes.
I’d pay more tax to make sure young working families on low incomes got more support.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,962
Why go back to before the Tory government, that was before there was an effective infrastructure to clamp down on money laundering and tax. The HMRC operates regardless of who is in power but they can only do what the law allows them to in chasing down perpetrators.
The reason I said not enough is being been done to close the tax gap today is because after the Panama Papers in 2016, the law was changed allowing the enablers of off shore tax havens to be prosecuted more easily and shut down amongst a range of other measures. So there is no excuse why the tax gap is still getting larger . Before 2014, there was a limit to HMRC getting data on overseas accounts but the law was also changed that year introducing cross border institutional cooperation with sharing data.
If you want to make this partisan (well at least a little dig at Labour
) , the question isn’t why Labour didn’t do enough before 2010 but why despite the changes to the law in 2014 and 2017 making the prosecution of stinking rich people squirrelling their money away in offshore accounts much easier, the Tories didn’t do more to reduce the tax gap and it in fact rose under their governance.This all goes back to my original point on the Labour meltdown thread and that we should make fuel companies subsidise/reduce bills from the windfall tax on billions £££s profits they make from the consumer. Pensioners shouldn’t even need WFPs. Likewise, if we closed the Tax gap even by 10% with the legislation that is already there for that purpose, there would be no need to start asking people like you and I if we would be happy to pay more income tax to help the elderly stay warm in their homes.
Redistribution of wealth - The bigger picture.
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worthingseagull123
Well-known member
- May 5, 2012
- 2,688
Stop putting asylum seekers in hotels. We can have warehouses with bunk beds like in Germany.
Offer no welfare payments to anyone who has not made financial contributions to income tax or NI, unless they have 10 years residency in the UK, or were born here.
How many billions have I just saved?
Offer no welfare payments to anyone who has not made financial contributions to income tax or NI, unless they have 10 years residency in the UK, or were born here.
How many billions have I just saved?
I'm not sure being disabled or over 80 means you are poor. It may do but equally you could also be well off that you don't need the WFP. The only criteria should be financial, ie deciding those that financially need it and those that don't.
schmunk
Why oh why oh why?
My wife's 93-year-old granny is a millionaire. Why does she need an extra £300?
5Ways Gull
È quello che è
I am a pensioner with effect end June this year. I have no issue with not getting the heating allowance as I am lucky enough to not need it. Pensioners that do, need to be supported in accessing the other benefits available to them.
studio150
Well-known member
Maye as an alternative, rather than fiddling around with the income tax rate, just reverse the NI reductions that The Tories introduced in an attempt to bribe voters to vote or them, when they would clearly have known that they didn't have the money to fund this giveaway.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,023
is odd to not reverse tax cut. still the autumn budget to come though.
She doesn't. Where did I say she did?
I simply suggested a compromise which would save a little less money but cause rather less outrage and controversy.
Super Steve Earle
Well-known member
Super Steve Earle
Well-known member
I know you are something of a political soul. So what is your definition of wealth that should be taken from the individuals concerned by a government and redistributed?Why go back to before the Tory government, that was before there was an effective infrastructure to clamp down on money laundering and tax. The HMRC operates regardless of who is in power but they can only do what the law allows them to in chasing down perpetrators.
The reason I said not enough is being been done to close the tax gap today is because after the Panama Papers in 2016, the law was changed allowing the enablers of off shore tax havens to be prosecuted more easily and shut down amongst a range of other measures. So there is no excuse why the tax gap is still getting larger . Before 2014, there was a limit to HMRC getting data on overseas accounts but the law was also changed that year introducing cross border institutional cooperation with sharing data.
If you want to make this partisan (well at least a little dig at Labour
This all goes back to my original point on the Labour meltdown thread and that we should make fuel companies subsidise/reduce bills from the windfall tax on billions £££s profits they make from the consumer. Pensioners shouldn’t even need WFPs. Likewise, if we closed the Tax gap even by 10% with the legislation that is already there for that purpose, there would be no need to start asking people like you and I if we would be happy to pay more income tax to help the elderly stay warm in their homes.
Redistribution of wealth - The bigger picture.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,962
My view on this is nothing to do with my politics. I support Labour, I helped get them elected and personally helped get rid of Liz Truss who did more harm to pensioners btw by knocking £425 billion off pension funds with her insanely irresponsible budget.
I do wonder though why are you asking me such a heavily laden question in particular to justify a particular policy that I have not said I agree with?
Repeatedly, I have said there are fairer and more morally sound ways to redistribute wealth than end the £200 per year WFP for pensioners.
Fuel should be cheaper for everyone and the windfall tax of £10 billion the Givernment is getting from the £65 billion profits the fuel companies made last year would more than cover the cost of winter fuel payments instead of them ploughing the money back into the fuel companies as green investments.
I have also said we should use existing legislation to close the tax gap by going after offshore tax evaders as well as ending the avoidance of National Insurance Contributions by making them compulsory not voluntary.
Super Steve Earle
Well-known member
I didn't intend it to be a loaded question. I was just curious in noting the sentence in your post 'redistribution of wealth - the bigger picture'.
Weststander
Well-known member
Truss was likely our worst PM, thick as sh1t, out of her depth.
But the £425b bonds market crisis wasn’t her doing, it was global, quantified at $2.6t. Spread over a couple of years. If Truss had wiped out almost half a trillion from our pensions, it would be headline news for years.
The damage from Trussonomics was quantified by economists as adding 0.75% to UK interest rates. Hurting the nation (cost of servicing state debt), businesses and mortgagors.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,962
Sorry been getting constant push back every time I post because apparently my political credentials of being a Labour Party activist puts me in the firing line for those very angry about this and apparently I have to justify everything I say so I will make this my last post (after responding to @Weststander below) because its getting boring.
It wasn’t meant as anything extreme - In really basic terms - Every government comes in with their own ideology - the left, traditionally at least, big government, social contract, prioritised welfare and healthcare provision, the role of government to look after the vulnerable and weak and keep public services and utilities in the public sector, paid with by higher taxation. The right, traditionally, low taxation, laissez faire economy, private/free enterprise, helping people help themselves, lower taxation, competition in the market place. In a capitalist society, there will be greater divisions between the rich and poor under a right wing government than under a left. The inherent forces of capitalism depend on that division to flourish.
Each consecutive government redistributes wealth according to its particular ideology which should, in this instance, under a left wing government, make the fuel companies give back some of the profits they have made to reduce fuel bills and close the tax gap - that’s what I meant by the bigger picture.
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