[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

Pavilionaire · Sep 9, 2024

Most pensioners wil have saved some money, whereas most young people will have nil/ negligible savings.

Therefore, the interest rate increase has meant while the young have to pay more on their mortgages the pesnioners are getting a shitload more interest.

Indeed, for a pensioner with £10K savings they'll be getting c £300 more interest per year than 22/23, so more than enough to offset the loss of the £200 annual winter fuel allowance, while the net incomes of the young after mortgage payments are actually down.

And £10K is on the low side, many pensioners will have a six figure sum tucked away and be earning thoussands more in interest than before. And this is not forgetting each pensioner can shovel £20K a year of their taxable savings into a tax free ISA.

Reeves and Starmer should be pointing out the winners and losers from the interest rate hike because from the media reports you would think this was the end of the world for pensioners.

rogersix · Sep 9, 2024

Is it PotG? said:
Blimey, no wonder the wealthy are heading out.

any evidence of this, or is it just your usual shtick?

Uh_huh_him · Sep 9, 2024

This WFA furore is the same old bullshit.

Successive governments have failed to tax the nation to the levels necessary, to secure the future prosperity of the country.
Now that the country is totally skint, the generation that have benefitted the most, are moaning about injustice.

Yeah, right.

nevergoagain · Sep 9, 2024

Peteinblack said:
I don't want a penny of your money because I don't like inheritance or receiving hand-outs.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse, but I'll ask you a final time - if you choose to leave your hard-earned dosh to a family member, they themselves have not worked for it, and so are no different to a welfare 'scrounger', who Tories despise!

Strange take, your prerogative and assume you'll give any inheritance to charity then if fortunate enough to receive some but that doesn't make you the voice for everyone else.

Throughout my working life I've struggled to get on the housing market and then family comes along and I worked hard to provide a better future for them. You seem to be saying it's all about the individual but I worked for my family to give them a good life and a future, that's my reward in life. Being able to do that, by leaving them set up for the future should be my choice and I don't believe the government should be able to take a huge chunk. I'm not expecting my kids to then kick back and do nothing, I fully expect them to work contribute etc. as I did so they wouldn't be the welfare scroungers you describe.

Uh_huh_him · Sep 9, 2024

nevergoagain said:
Strange take, your prerogative and assume you'll give any inheritance to charity then if fortunate enough to receive some but that doesn't make you the voice for everyone else.

Throughout my working life I've struggled to get on the housing market and then family comes along and I worked hard to provide a better future for them. You seem to be saying it's all about the individual but I worked for my family to give them a good life and a future, that's my reward in life. Being able to do that, by leaving them set up for the future should be my choice and I don't believe the government should be able to take a huge chunk. I'm not expecting my kids to then kick back and do nothing, I fully expect them to work contribute etc. as I did so they wouldn't be the welfare scroungers you describe.

WATFORD zero · Sep 9, 2024

Is it PotG? said:
I see.

I've worked hard, made a couple of quid and you want some of it.

Fair do's.

Have you only read a headline and getting all worked up over nothing again ? You do know it's only your second million upwards that will pay inheritance tax and I'm sorry but I never had you down as one of the 4%.

But in the unlikely event you are, given your attitude to the couple of quid you've saved, I you would thought you'd be the first to take measures :dunce:

BLOCK F · Sep 9, 2024

Good grief, I am amazed by some on here defending the inept WFP fiasco that Starmer and Reeves have created for themselves. Labour MPs and MInisters visibly squirming on TV , the unions very unhappy and even the Guardian has had a right go, so I have just read online. But, some good old NSC stalwarts are still banging the drum.
Of course there is a case for stopping the universality of the WPF, but this is a cock up entirely of Starmer and Reeves making and their political ineptness is a worry.
What on earth were they thinking of?

Uh_huh_him · Sep 9, 2024

BLOCK F said:
Good grief, I am amazed by some on here defending the inept WFP fiasco that Starmer and Reeves have created for themselves. Labour MPs and MInisters visibly squirming on TV , the unions very unhappy and even the Guardian has had a right go, so I have just read online. But, some good old NSC stalwarts are still banging the drum.
Of course there is a case for stopping the universality of the WPF, but this is a cock up entirely of Starmer and Reeves making and their political ineptness is a worry.
What on earth were they thinking of?

It has nothing to do with political eptitude. and everything to do with the reality of the UK's economy.

There is going to be far worse than this.
The reality is that anyone without the ability to pay for their winter fuel, will still qualify for the payment.
Which is what it was intended for.

My mum is furious about it.
She doesn't pay the bills in her household.
Which manages to run two cars.

BLOCK F · Sep 9, 2024

Uh_huh_him said:
It has nothing to do with political eptitude. and everything to do with the reality of the UK's economy.

There is going to be far worse than this.
The reality is that anyone without the ability to pay for their winter fuel, will still qualify for the payment.
Which is what it was intended for.

My mum is furious about it.
She doesn't pay the bills in her household.
Which manages to run two cars.

Well, I and many others disagree with you, including many who voted Labour and also a fair number of those who sit on the Labour benches.

Is it PotG? · Sep 9, 2024

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/winter-fuel-payment-cut-labour-deaths-b2609340.html

Cut to winter fuel payment could kill 4,000 people, Labour’s own research suggests

beorhthelm · Sep 9, 2024

Uh_huh_him said:
It has nothing to do with political eptitude. and everything to do with the reality of the UK's economy.

could have just said they'd look at WFP for higher earners, not even particularly controversial, along with some upbeat talking points about positive policy changes. instead we've had this issue dominate for two months.

Weststander · Sep 9, 2024

Uh_huh_him said:
It has nothing to do with political eptitude. and everything to do with the reality of the UK's economy.

There is going to be far worse than this.
The reality is that anyone without the ability to pay for their winter fuel, will still qualify for the payment.
Which is what it was intended for.

My mum is furious about it.
She doesn't pay the bills in her household.
Which manages to run two cars.

Attempt at an apolitical point ….

Regarding “the far worse to come” that people here and elsewhere keep referencing, fuelled by Starmer preparing the ground in a recent speech.

A personal view, I doubt that will happen for the tens of millions on low to modest income from employment and/or benefits.

Already promised no income tax, NI and VAT increases, that leaves virtually no tax that could hurt them.

For the single person, couple or family on say £20k, £30k or £40k, relax.

Uh_huh_him · Sep 9, 2024

Weststander said:
Attempt at an apolitical point ….

Regarding “the far worse to come” that people here and elsewhere keep referencing, fuelled by Starmer preparing the ground in a recent speech.

A personal view, I doubt that will happen for the tens of millions on low to modest income from employment and/or benefits.

Already promised no income tax, NI and VAT increases, that leaves virtually no tax that could hurt them.

For the single person, couple or family on say £20k, £30k or £40k, relax.

Yes I suspect that to be the case too.
At least that is cetainly the intent.
However the truth is, it is always far easier to add a couple of percentage points on the PAYE tax rate than it is to get the super wealthy to cough up.

The triple lock, will possibly come under scrutiny, sooner or later.

abc · Sep 9, 2024

BLOCK F said:
Good grief, I am amazed by some on here defending the inept WFP fiasco that Starmer and Reeves have created for themselves. Labour MPs and MInisters visibly squirming on TV , the unions very unhappy and even the Guardian has had a right go, so I have just read online. But, some good old NSC stalwarts are still banging the drum.
Of course there is a case for stopping the universality of the WPF, but this is a cock up entirely of Starmer and Reeves making and their political ineptness is a worry.
What on earth were they thinking of?

But If the Tories had done this they would have been apoplectic!

abc · Sep 9, 2024

Weststander said:
Attempt at an apolitical point ….

Regarding “the far worse to come” that people here and elsewhere keep referencing, fuelled by Starmer preparing the ground in a recent speech.

A personal view, I doubt that will happen for the tens of millions on low to modest income from employment and/or benefits.

Already promised no income tax, NI and VAT increases, that leaves virtually no tax that could hurt them.

For the single person, couple or family on say £20k, £30k or £40k, relax.

Only true to a point. If tax rises and other other potential actions damage rather than improve the economy then it will be those at on the lowest incomes that will suffer the most, not the richest.

Weststander · Sep 9, 2024

Uh_huh_him said:
Yes I suspect that to be the case too.
At least that is cetainly the intent.
However the truth is, it is always far easier to add a couple of percentage points on the PAYE tax rate than it is to get the super wealthy to cough up.

The triple lock, will possibly come under scrutiny, sooner or later.

Starmer and Reeves on repeat promised that won't happen. It really would be political suicide.

I think the 'average working household' will fare okay.

Instead ... council tax at the top end, IHT, CGT, the end to some reliefs/claims/elections. Hitting the people you mention.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Sep 9, 2024

Peteinblack said:
I don't want a penny of your money because I don't like inheritance or receiving hand-outs.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse, but I'll ask you a final time - if you choose to leave your hard-earned dosh to a family member, they themselves have not worked for it, and so are no different to a welfare 'scrounger', who Tories despise!

There is of course a huge differece between being given somthing by a family member, compared to being given something by the State (taxpayer)

But then I think you know that.

keaton · Sep 9, 2024

Is it PotG? said:
Idiot.
My wife and I come from council estate backgrounds, Deason and Stringer schools.
We've made a couple of quid working, and you think we should give it up?
Righto.

You've managed to save over £325k ?

BLOCK F · Sep 9, 2024

Pavilionaire said:
Most pensioners wil have saved some money, whereas most young people will have nil/ negligible savings.

Therefore, the interest rate increase has meant while the young have to pay more on their mortgages the pesnioners are getting a shitload more interest.

Indeed, for a pensioner with £10K savings they'll be getting c £300 more interest per year than 22/23, so more than enough to offset the loss of the £200 annual winter fuel allowance, while the net incomes of the young after mortgage payments are actually down.

And £10K is on the low side, many pensioners will have a six figure sum tucked away and be earning thoussands more in interest than before. And this is not forgetting each pensioner can shovel £20K a year of their taxable savings into a tax free ISA.

Reeves and Starmer should be pointing out the winners and losers from the interest rate hike because from the media reports you would think this was the end of the world for pensioners.

Good grief, your generosity knows no bounds.
It is not the pensioners who may have six figure sums tucked away that concerns the huge number of critics re the WPF, it is the unfortunate souls who fall just outside the threshold for claiming pension credit and are surviving on very modest means. It is highly unlikely that these people have substantial sums earning interest.
You mention the young paying mortgages and the old getting a shitload more interest, well, interest rates go up and down.
Finally, your comment re the ‘end of the world for pensioners,’ is unworthy. Only those who cannot or will not see that the way this whole business has been implemented is an unholy mess, can possibly defend the actions of Reeves and Starmer.

Is it PotG? · Sep 9, 2024

keaton said:
You've managed to save over £325k ?

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Cut to winter fuel payment could kill 4,000 people, Labour’s own research suggests