[Albion] Have we, at some point in our seasons in the EFL/EPL, occupied every position between 1-92?

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo · Sep 5, 2024

Nathan said:
Not sure thats the same thing though. How can we have occupied every position, we haven't been bottom of the premier league. I know football was kicking about (pun intended) before the EPL but think it is a big obstacle to ignore.

The question was have we been in every position of the 92. Not have we been in every position of every league we’ve been in. Some seasons where those 92 positions actually are within the 4 leagues will have changed.

Currently 1st in the Championship is 21st out of 92 but in some previous seasons would have been 21st in the Premier League/old first division.

I would say there is a high possibility that we’ve been in every position of the 92. 11 vs 11 would be a good source but I don’t fancy wading through 70 years of league tables to find out (and they only have the table for end of the day which won’t take into account the various positions a club could have occupied on a day when kick off times vary).

Mellotron · Sep 5, 2024

kevo said:
Bear in mind you are only really going back to 1958, when the four-tier structure was introduced.

It's an almost impossible question to answer, though, as 'as it stands' tables are not archived, unless they are available on something like Soccerbase?

You can find old as it stands tables, although I'm sure they probably don't go back that many years;

Wycombe 2 - 5 Brighton - BBC Sport

Simster · Sep 5, 2024

I thought it would be interesting to see how many different FINAL league placings we've been in according to this site. I put it into Excel and here are the placings we've had:

League Position	No. Of Seasons
6	1
9	1
11	1
13	1
15	2
16	2
17	1
19	1
22	2
23	1
24	2
26	3
28	1
30	1
31	1
33	1
34	1
36	1
38	2
39	1
40	2
43	1
44	4
45	3
46	4
47	2
48	2
49	2
50	2
51	2
52	1
53	2
54	3
55	2
56	3
57	1
58	3
59	2
60	4
62	4
63	4
66	1
67	2
69	2
70	1
74	1
76	1
77	3
79	2
84	1
87	1
91	2

Nigella's Cream Pie · Sep 5, 2024

Nobby Cybergoat said:
But in the relegation season in 83, or in any of those seasons earlier, was there not a weekend when we were bottom or second to bottom? You'd have to look for the early results to find out

Tables weren't published at the end of the opening day in those days but you might know that we lost our very first Division One match 4-0 to Arsenal.
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-division-one/18-august-1979/

Mr deez · Sep 5, 2024

Simster said:
I thought it would be interesting to see how many different FINAL league placings we've been in according to this site. I put it into Excel and here are the placings we've had:

League Position No. Of Seasons
6 1
9 1
11 1
13 1
15 2
16 2
17 1
19 1
22 2
23 1
24 2
26 3
28 1
30 1
31 1
33 1
34 1
36 1
38 2
39 1
40 2
43 1
44 4
45 3
46 4
47 2
48 2
49 2
50 2
51 2
52 1
53 2
54 3
55 2
56 3
57 1
58 3
59 2
60 4
62 4
63 4
66 1
67 2
69 2
70 1
74 1
76 1
77 3
79 2
84 1
87 1
91 2

That makes me pretty confident we will have done it. Maybe a few at the very top and bottom missing?

Han Solo · Sep 5, 2024

Brighton & Hove Albion - Schedule 03/04

This page contains an complete overview of all already played and fixtured season games and the season tally of the club Brighton in the season 03/04.

www.transfermarkt.com

This is quite useful but doesn't work for every season (no third division seasons I think)

Lenny Rider · Sep 5, 2024

kevo said:
Sadly, definitely 6th (though, as has been pointed out, we were 5th after beating Wolves in September)

View attachment 188486

Slightly off topic.

Liverpool won the League that season, yet not top 10 at the start of December, a truly competitive league :thumbsup:

Nathan · Sep 5, 2024

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo said:
The question was have we been in every position of the 92. Not have we been in every position of every league we’ve been in. Some seasons where those 92 positions actually are within the 4 leagues will have changed.

Currently 1st in the Championship is 21st out of 92 but in some previous seasons would have been 21st in the Premier League/old first division.

I would say there is a high possibility that we’ve been in every position of the 92. 11 vs 11 would be a good source but I don’t fancy wading through 70 years of league tables to find out (and they only have the table for end of the day which won’t take into account the various positions a club could have occupied on a day when kick off times vary).

I hear what you are saying, but then when you are looking up 5th in the old div 1 back in the 80's for example, you are really comparing that with 5th in the premier league which we have been in. Its a bit of fun, so go for it and it will be interesting to see the results. But is 24th in div 1 in the 80's, the same as 4th in the championship.

ROSM · Sep 5, 2024

Simster said:
I thought it would be interesting to see how many different FINAL league placings we've been in according to this site. I put it into Excel and here are the placings we've had:

League Position No. Of Seasons
6 1
9 1
11 1
13 1
15 2
16 2
17 1
19 1
22 2
23 1
24 2
26 3
28 1
30 1
31 1
33 1
34 1
36 1
38 2
39 1
40 2
43 1
44 4
45 3
46 4
47 2
48 2
49 2
50 2
51 2
52 1
53 2
54 3
55 2
56 3
57 1
58 3
59 2
60 4
62 4
63 4
66 1
67 2
69 2
70 1
74 1
76 1
77 3
79 2
84 1
87 1
91 2

So c 39 others to find. That gives me hope that of we finished in 53 different places we must have at least occupied the others if only once

Worried Man Blues · Sep 5, 2024

Swansea have been all over the leagues including a quick rise and fall as did Northampton

Garry Nelson's Left Foot · Sep 5, 2024

Simster said:
I thought it would be interesting to see how many different FINAL league placings we've been in according to this site. I put it into Excel and here are the placings we've had:

League Position No. Of Seasons
6 1
9 1
11 1
13 1
15 2
16 2
17 1
19 1
22 2
23 1
24 2
26 3
28 1
30 1
31 1
33 1
34 1
36 1
38 2
39 1
40 2
43 1
44 4
45 3
46 4
47 2
48 2
49 2
50 2
51 2
52 1
53 2
54 3
55 2
56 3
57 1
58 3
59 2
60 4
62 4
63 4
66 1
67 2
69 2
70 1
74 1
76 1
77 3
79 2
84 1
87 1
91 2

This looks promising. A quick tot up says that we've finished in 52 different positions in 97 seasons. Surely with 38-46 different match days per each of those 97 seasons we've been able to end a day in every one of the 92 positions.

nickbrighton · Sep 5, 2024

The issue i see, is that especially since the advent of live televised matches, and becoming more frequent the closer to the present day, the number of matches each team has played at any given time can vary enormously, add in postponements, and other reasons, at which point do you take the position as being correct. To actually said to have occupied a particular place, surely it needs to be done when all teams have played the same number of games

We were top at one point last season, simply because we played at 12:30 before anyone else. By 8pm we werent, would that count as being first? This year we were top after the first round of games. so that definitely would

The Wookiee · Sep 5, 2024

Eeyore said:
I'd be surprised. Wolves only had a couple of seasons in Division 4 and were challenging in both. They will only have had a couple in Division 3 as well.

Maybe by default alphabetically before the kick off of the first game of the season, unless York were in same division

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo · Sep 5, 2024

nickbrighton said:
The issue i see, is that especially since the advent of live televised matches, and becoming more frequent the closer to the present day, the number of matches each team has played at any given time can vary enormously, add in postponements, and other reasons, at which point do you take the position as being correct. To actually said to have occupied a particular place, surely it needs to be done when all teams have played the same number of games

We were top at one point last season, simply because we played at 12:30 before anyone else. By 8pm we werent, would that count as being first? This year we were top after the first round of games. so that definitely would

We were top for an entire week last season. The same as this season. Last season was after 2 games, this season it was after the first game. They definitely should count as all teams had played the same number of games.

Giraffe · Sep 5, 2024

Nathan said:
No we haven't. So to answer the OP's question and save everyone a good few hours, the answer is no.

But we have been bottom of the top division which presumably still counts. (they've re-badged it you fools!)

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-division-one/05-may-1983/

Giraffe · Sep 5, 2024

nickbrighton said:
The issue i see, is that especially since the advent of live televised matches, and becoming more frequent the closer to the present day, the number of matches each team has played at any given time can vary enormously, add in postponements, and other reasons, at which point do you take the position as being correct. To actually said to have occupied a particular place, surely it needs to be done when all teams have played the same number of games

We were top at one point last season, simply because we played at 12:30 before anyone else. By 8pm we werent, would that count as being first? This year we were top after the first round of games. so that definitely would

I think though if you judged it based on end of the day that would probably cover nearly every position anyway? If not you could you research the remaining handful.

Giraffe · Sep 5, 2024

12 of the currently 20 teams in the Premier League were in the old division one in 1983. Thought it might be less than that.

Nathan · Sep 5, 2024

Giraffe said:
But we have been bottom of the top division which presumably still counts. (they've re-badged it you fools!)

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-division-one/05-may-1983/

Depends how you are judging it. Others might argue that 24th in the old div 1 is now effectively 4th in the championship, based on 1-92 positions. Or do you say that bottom of the top division is the same regardless of the numbers in the top division.

highflyer · Sep 5, 2024

Alphabetical ordering is just a convenient way of arranging all the teams at the start of a season. It doesn't actually define positions.

In reality, before the first goal of a season is scored, we are both in every position and also not in every position. And every outcome is still possible. Thus as long as a team has started at least one season in each division that team will have occupied every position in tbe league.
.
#SchrodingersBrighton

AZ Gull · Sep 5, 2024

Lenny Rider said:
...

Is Tim Carder on NSC?

He is, but looking at his account he hasn't visited since the end of September last year.

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[Albion] Have we, at some point in our seasons in the EFL/EPL, occupied every position between 1-92?

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