[News] The Grenfell Report.

Leekbrookgull · Sep 4, 2024

Seven years in the making and there's been bit of a drip, drip MSM news feed of late as to the report. No doubt plenty of finger pointing and the blame game culture will feature. It's just a personal thing but The LFB Frontline Firemen were put in an impossible position but i thank them for their efforts as for The L/Authority, planning, design and build and others well over to you.

Weststander · Sep 4, 2024

Leekbrookgull said:
Seven years in the making and there's been bit of a drip, drip MSM news feed of late as to the report. No doubt plenty of finger pointing and the blame game culture will feature. It's just a personal thing but The LFB Frontline Firemen were put in an impossible position but i thank them for their efforts as for The L/Authority, planning, design and build and others well over to you.

The fire service (the bosses/systems) made huge contributory blunders. They won't make those again! The report is clear that they too got it wrong.

Many parties were culpable.

Way beyond the kneejerk blame on day one on just the local authority, which was neat copout for a while for the others.

A1X · Sep 4, 2024

Key takeaways from the report can be summarised here

Grenfell Tower fire report: who was at fault and what was landlord’s role?

Key takeaways from public inquiry into 2017 London disaster as 1,700-page final report is published

www.theguardian.com

Essentially, a large number of organisations and institutions criticised for their actions, including (but not limited to) the landlords, the cladding manufacturers and Kensington & Chelsra council.

Weststander · Sep 4, 2024

Comprehensive webpage:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40301289

Leekbrookgull · Sep 4, 2024

I stand to be corrected but is there either a construction firm or materials supplier from Forest Row connected to Grenfell ?

Weststander · Sep 4, 2024

Leekbrookgull said:
I stand to be corrected but is there either a construction firm or materials supplier from Forest Row connected to Grenfell ?

There was.

vegster · Sep 4, 2024

The results of the inquiry are completely expected. As with previous scandals and disasters, advice was not heeded, there was a need to save/make money and lessons not learned in previous tower block fires.

Additionally, as in previous scandals, I do not expect there to be many prosecutions of those responsible. Maybe the odd small fry thrown to the Wolves but the likes of Pickles will live a comfortable retirement.

Nobby Cybergoat · Sep 4, 2024

An excellent summary given in this article.

Grenfell is simply explained: firms chased profits, ministers sat on their hands, innocents paid with their lives | Peter Apps

Today’s report should make you angry. People died horribly and futures were wrecked because of ideology, neglect and greed, says author and housing specialist Peter Apps

www.theguardian.com

The state stepped back, corporate greed stepped in, innocent people died

Albion my Albion · Sep 4, 2024

I say it every time I see a high rise building, you couldn't pay me to live in a building several stories high because it is so difficult to get out in case of a fire.

Official Old Man · Sep 4, 2024

Albion my Albion said:
I say it every time I see a high rise building, you couldn't pay me to live in a building several stories high because it is so difficult to get out in case of a fire.

But in theory there is in place, sprinkler systems, each flat fire proofed and fire doors.
What let Grenfell down was that the outer walls caught fire so easily. This spread to all floors very quickly. The normal fire brigade responce is 'stay in your room' but in this case that was the worse thing to do.

Weststander · Sep 4, 2024

vegster said:
The results of the inquiry are completely expected. As with previous scandals and disasters, advice was not heeded, there was a need to save/make money and lessons not learned in previous tower block fires.

Additionally, as in previous scandals, I do not expect there to be many prosecutions of those responsible. Maybe the odd small fry thrown to the Wolves but the likes of Pickles will live a comfortable retirement.

If this is party political, it covers Labour, Coalition and Tory politicians all in comfortable retirements. The report explicitly states:

“Decades of failure” by the UK government and parts of the construction industry led directly to the 2017 Grenfell Tower fire, according to the damning final report of a public inquiry.
https://www.ft.com/content/18b217c4-db74-4b1a-a11e-62889dee8eca#:~:text=Wednesday’s report accused Arconic of

Nobby Cybergoat · Sep 4, 2024

Incredibly this has happened this afternoon

Catford: Fire breaks out at high-rise flats

About 70 firefighters and 10 fire engines are at the scene of the blaze in south-east London.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just hope everybody is bought out safely

vegster · Sep 4, 2024

Weststander said:
If this is party political, it covers Labour, Coalition and Tory politicians all in comfortable retirements. The report explicitly states:

“Decades of failure” by the UK government and parts of the construction industry led directly to the 2017 Grenfell Tower fire, according to the damning final report of a public inquiry.
https://www.ft.com/content/18b217c4-db74-4b1a-a11e-62889dee8eca#:~:text=Wednesday’s report accused Arconic of

It cuts across government " For Decades" so all are either implicated directly or by neglect of duty of government. I tend to think that this scandal is societal and was all about money.....next big scandal ? 10-15 years time it will be food and its marketing by shops and big corporations...the crap they feed us and the obesity/ Diabetes tidal wave that results.

Weststander · Sep 4, 2024

vegster said:
It cuts across government " For Decades" so all are either implicated directly or by neglect of duty of government. I tend to think that this scandal is societal and was all about money.....next big scandal ? 10-15 years time it will be food and its marketing by shops and big corporations...the crap they feed us and the obesity/ Diabetes tidal wave that results.

The big food industry scandal is fairly well known. Producing highly addictive sugars/carbs, so most people busy lives or not have given up on proper cooking, in eating veg and fruit.

Albion my Albion · Sep 4, 2024

Nobby Cybergoat said:
Just hope everybody is bought out safely

The London Fire Brigade (LFB) was called to the flats on Rosenthal Road in Catford at 12:51 BST.

About 70 firefighters and 10 fire engines were sent.

By 14:15 the brigade said the fire was under control and there we no reports of injuries.

I don't believe money was involved in getting the people out safely though.

Weststander · Sep 4, 2024

Albion my Albion said:
The London Fire Brigade (LFB) was called to the flats on Rosenthal Road in Catford at 12:51 BST.

About 70 firefighters and 10 fire engines were sent.

By 14:15 the brigade said the fire was under control and there we no reports of injuries.

I don't believe money was involved in getting the people out safely though.

On the fire service failings, money wasn't mentioned. Instead:

https://www.ft.com/content/18b217c4...:~:text=Wednesday’s report accused Arconic of
London Fire Brigade also came in for detailed criticism. Shortcomings in its ability to fight fires in high-rise buildings were attributable to “a chronic lack of effective management and leadership”. Those failures were compounded by “an entrenched but unfounded assumption that the building regulations were sufficient to ensure that external wall fires of the kind that were known to have occurred in other countries would not occur in this country”.

Nobby Cybergoat · Sep 4, 2024

Weststander said:
Those failures were compounded by “an entrenched but unfounded assumption that the building regulations were sufficient to ensure that external wall fires of the kind that were known to have occurred in other countries would not occur in this country”.

It's not an entirely unreasonable assumption given that the manufacturers appear to have fabricated and mis-reported the test results and the privatised body responsible for checking this appears to have waved the results through.

In my view the fire service are nowhere near the top of the list of where we need to be focussing the blame

Weststander · Sep 4, 2024

Nobby Cybergoat said:
It's not an entirely unreasonable assumption given that the manufacturers appear to have fabricated and mis-reported the test results and the privatised body responsible for checking this appears to have waved the results through.

In my view the fire service are nowhere near the top of the list of where we need to be focussing the blame

The judge didn't make a hierarchy of blame or shy away from damning any public/private entity.

Whereas we can do that. Yes, based on expert testimony in the report and leaked emails/whistleblowers, it appears that the three named manufacturers ultimately committed corporate manslaughter. Without their lies and products, the fire wouldn't have spread.

Eric the meek · Sep 4, 2024

At the start of the BBC News at Ten, I caught a reference to 'a bonfire of regulations' by the Cameron/Clegg coalition in 2010.

I don't know if the regulations in the bonfire were directly relevant to Grenfell, but the inference was that they were.

Bold Seagull · Sep 4, 2024

One of the key factors in any criminal prosecutions is that 4000 other residential buildings over 11m were clad in similar materials and detailing. For criminal negligence a typical test is whether another person in your position would act in a similar way. The answer here is yes, on 4000 other buildings.

On the other hand acting fraudulently to cover up fire test data, or purposefully misrepresenting your product is knowing intent to deceive and that’s where it’s likely any criminal cases will focus on this imho.

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[News] The Grenfell Report.

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