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Professor Plum

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 27, 2024
633
Commander said:
Is there any evidence to show that what you suggest works? Can you point us in the direction of some academic studies that show the link between long sentences and a fall in crime rates?

I’m sure it’s not just stuff that you’re assuming / repeating from others, but it would be interesting to know the details / facts.
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For the great majority of us, the threat of punishment is a pretty good disincentive. Imagine the crime rate if there were no prisons or threat of a long sentence.

But the discussion point is not so much does prison reduce overall crime rates but whether a long sentence would help the rehabilitation of very young offenders.
 




Peacehaven Wild Kids

Peacehaven Wild Kids

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2022
3,406
The Avenue then Maloncho
Professor Plum said:
Absolutely understood, and that’s why I say every case is different. I’m not advocating punishing parents who have tried to do the right thing. I was a bit of a tearaway myself as a teen and that wasn’t anything to do with bad parenting. But in some cases…
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Likewise, I fully understand your opinion.Take the case of the 12 year old rioter, he’s up in court and the mother has buggered off to Ibiza. He hasn’t got a chance.
 




TugWilson

TugWilson

I gotta admit that I`m a little bit confused
Dec 8, 2020
1,730
Dorset
Any custodial punishment should start with the parents imo , i don`t believe the parents of these creatures honestly believed their kid was incapable of at least some anti - social act of some type . Yet the parents will all claim their little angel was a victim of peer pressure or some other equally hollow excuse .

I think we all shoot ourselves in the foot if we automatically assume that a bad start in life is an acceptable reason to ruin or take someone else`s . When a lot of those (myself included) on this site were young , a stranger in the street could tick you off for bad behaviour , these days we daren`t say a word and if we did we would be accused of some offence of some kind .

In the U.S.A. they have "Boot Camp`s" as a potential deterrent and possibly a career in the forces to follow , maybe a possible solution . But i have always been in favour of conscription , it works throughout Scandinavia - who by coincidence happen to be among the most pleasant and decent people in Europe .
 


T

TheJasperCo

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2012
4,612
Exeter
Police have made a voluntary referral to the independent watchdog, as there was previous contact between the Force and the victim.
 




Albion my Albion

Albion my Albion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 6, 2016
19,674
Indiana, USA
WATFORD zero said:
I'm now mid 60's and feel safer strolling round any part of Brighton at night than I ever did in the 70s :shrug:

But getting older and frailer is a right pisser and I don't have any answer to that :wink:
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You got that right!
 


Comrade Sam

Comrade Sam

Comrade Sam
Jan 31, 2013
1,926
Walthamstow
A mex eyecan said:
I find it so depressing….
I also find it concerning that 80 isn’t that far off. Being old and frail is bad enough let alone the thought there’s kids/adults out there that see old people as an east soft target.
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Not really, kids usually see other kids as a soft target. The vast majority of violence perpertred by under 20s is on the under 20s. Whilst the vast majority of murder victims knew or were related to their murderer. On average one child a year is killed by strangers. Most sexual abuse is committed by family or friends of the family. And strangely this sort of thing has been happening for hundreds of years. In fact history has seen a gradual decline in violent crime over the millenia. Any increases in most types of crime are related to social conditions - times is hard for many now so we shouldn't be surprised that there's a slight increase over the last couple of years. Those stories that fill the headlines are usually far more outlyer than people think. But it doesn't stop a sensational story (or in some cases a race riot).
 


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Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
16,062
Try to get to the root of the problem and then try and fix it - and them. In short, try and help them.

The 'Lock them up and throw away the key' approach is very unlikely to work, nor will it be enough of a deterrent for others to not do the same or similar. If it was, the prisons wouldn't be full!
 




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
junior said:
Lock them away, for a long time.

That does two things...

Firstly and most importantly it prevents them from being able to cause this extreme harm to anyone else, like you, me and our loved ones.

Secondly, it shows and educates others that these actions have consequences. This is important. It's weak sentences and a 'soft' criminal justice system that has in my opinion, contributed to the rise in violent knife crime.

As has been so dramatically demonstrated recently by the tactics around the public disorder sentencing, putting people in fear of going to prison for a (relatively) long time pretty much stopped the riots/disorder overnight.
I saw a lot of people alarmed at perceived 'extreme' sentencing for what they described as low level offences when looked at singularity. However those people didn't get those sentences as Thier punishment fitted the crimes. They got them as it was the most effective way of the government/criminal justice system bringing an absolutely necessary end to the violence for the greater good of the nation.

If you answer the original question in the OP with anything along the lines of education, hugs, love, nurturing etc...then you will be indirectly responsible for the next time something like this happens.
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You can't discern who someone will be for the rest of their lives, on one act aged 12.

We know nothing about the circumstances, nothing about these kids, but let's say they are without redemption and lock them up for 20 years or more.
Doesn't seem to work in most of the US, not as a deterrent anyway. Locking someone up for their whole life doesn't necessarily stop them killing anyone either, just limits their options on who they can kill, maybe someone inside for something relatively.minor, maybe another murderer, or maybe a prison guard.
 
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jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,579
There is no easy answer. But there has to be punishment. What form that takes I have no clue.

Where are the parents?
 






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