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[Albion] Arsenal fans



jackanada

jackanada

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2011
3,499
Brighton
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I understand precision and accuracy.

How much over 50 MPH do you have to be to constitute speeding?

View attachment 188382

HMG makes no such claims so in theory you could be done for doing 30.01 MPH in a 30 zone.

So, people of NSC, what is the smallest number of MPH over a limit that has triggered police action (fine or fine and points)? In my case at least 10% plus 2 mph.
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Sakes Harry.
As Hürzeler said wrt kicking balls away they're entirely different situations.
Yes most speed cameras are set at 10%+ 2. There isn't actually any reason for this except that when they put in the first generation cameras that had actual film that needed to be collected in they first set them at 5mph over and they ran out of film about 2 minutes later.
You've been done by average speed cameras. So firstly the time and distance are both relatively large so your calculated speed is incredibly accurate.
Secondly no allowance needs to be made that you could possibly be mid overtake or just briefly didn't notice your speed or whatever.
You drove for a considerable time above the speed limit, and given speedos usually read higher than your actual speed you probably saw 60 on your speedo and carried on.
 




L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
22,778
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
So what fan base are we having major beef with next week - never stops on here. Can’t we have an organised break of sorts
 


Sid and the Sharknados

Sid and the Sharknados

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 4, 2022
5,664
Darlington
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I understand precision and accuracy.

How much over 50 MPH do you have to be to constitute speeding?

View attachment 188382

HMG makes no such claims so in theory you could be done for doing 30.01 MPH in a 30 zone.

So, people of NSC, what is the smallest number of MPH over a limit that has triggered police action (fine or fine and points)? In my case at least 10% plus 2 mph.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure a policeman could get you or let you off for various forms of dangerous or inattentive driving at any speed.

Which is probably more relevant to the totting up idea than getting done by a speed camera.
 


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,747
Chandlers Ford
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I understand precision and accuracy.

How much over 50 MPH do you have to be to constitute speeding?

View attachment 188382

HMG makes no such claims so in theory you could be done for doing 30.01 MPH in a 30 zone.

So, people of NSC, what is the smallest number of MPH over a limit that has triggered police action (fine or fine and points)? In my case at least 10% plus 2 mph.
Click to expand...
I got three points, years ago, for 34 in a 30. So, within your suggested ‘tolerance’.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
55,912
Faversham
jackanada said:
Sakes Harry.
As Hürzeler said wrt kicking balls away they're entirely different situations.
Yes most speed cameras are set at 10%+ 2. There isn't actually any reason for this except that when they put in the first generation cameras that had actual film that needed to be collected in they first set them at 5mph over and they ran out of film about 2 minutes later.
You've been done by average speed cameras. So firstly the time and distance are both relatively large so your calculated speed is incredibly accurate.
Secondly no allowance needs to be made that you could possibly be mid overtake or just briefly didn't notice your speed or whatever.
You drove for a considerable time above the speed limit, and given speedos usually read higher than your actual speed you probably saw 60 on your speedo and carried on.
Click to expand...
That's an eloquent explanation. I forgot about the averaging aspect.

Yes. Bang to rights. It's a fair cop. I'll come quietly officer.
 




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I just got done for doing 57 in a 50 zone, by speed averaging cameras.

I have tried to get the record but I get bounced. If they have rounded it up to 57 I would argue that I was below the '10% plus 2' rubric, given we are talking about precise thresholds for an offence to become an 'offence'. Rounding up from 56.5 to 57 is no more legitimate than rounding it up to 60. Or 100. If they claim their measurement is extremely precise then they definitely shouldn't round up.

Anyway your analogy is not quite right.

A 3 point offense and a ban are like thruppeny bits and a shilling.

What I am complaining about is four lots of 0, 1 or 2 pennies apparently making a shilling.

If we accept a totting up process, what is the rubric? I suggest it is the 'judgement' (aka whim) of the referee. Boo. BOO! Boo.

(Good discussion this.)
Click to expand...
Yes, it is the whim of the referee. The reason Sidwell got away with a lot, was because he always smiled at the ref when pleading his innocence. The reason Veltman gets away with a lot, is he is always controlled, the ref never feels he has to calm him down.
There is a responsibility on the referee to control the game, hot heads need a bit more calming down, and won't get away with as much as the player that is calm, but still a bit dirty when it's good for the team.

With motoring offences, cameras can't be sweet talked, so you get your points and fine, but I have been succesful in pleas for leniency with some Police Officers.
And no, I didn't need to decide whether to spit or swallow in return for leniency.

Totting up is saying, you have not heeded the warning, so here is the real punishment.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
hans kraay fan club said:
I got three points, years ago, for 34 in a 30. So, within your suggested ‘tolerance’.
Click to expand...
It's a bugger, speeding is speeding, and anything over is an offence. Usually speed cameras in a 30 won't trigger below 35, but sometimes larger vehicles will trigger it. We're you in a van?
Or was it a copper in a hi-vis trying to hide behind a lamppost? He might have just not had many customers and thought he would have you.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
That's an eloquent explanation. I forgot about the averaging aspect.

Yes. Bang to rights. It's a fair cop. I'll come quietly officer.
Click to expand...
If you can be bothered, you may be able to find fault in the signage, telling you the speed limit, or telling you an average speed check system is in place.
Unless you are close to a totting up ban, probably not worth the effort or time in court to argue it.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
55,912
Faversham
Baldseagull said:
Yes, it is the whim of the referee. The reason Sidwell got away with a lot, was because he always smiled at the ref when pleading his innocence. The reason Veltman gets away with a lot, is he is always controlled, the ref never feels he has to calm him down.
There is a responsibility on the referee to control the game, hot heads need a bit more calming down, and won't get away with as much as the player that is calm, but still a bit dirty when it's good for the team.

With motoring offences, cameras can't be sweet talked, so you get your points and fine, but I have been succesful in pleas for leniency with some Police Officers.
And no, I didn't need to decide whether to spit or swallow in return for leniency.

Totting up is saying, you have not heeded the warning, so here is the real punishment.
Click to expand...
Very good. It makes sense when you explain it.

I suspect it is the fact I often can't see nuance unless it is explained to me that has helped me ask awkward questions in my job. Ah well. Cheers :thumbsup:
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
55,912
Faversham
Baldseagull said:
If you can be bothered, you may be able to find fault in the signage, telling you the speed limit, or telling you an average speed check system is in place.
Unless you are close to a totting up ban, probably not worth the effort or time in court to argue it.
Click to expand...
I just checked. I did an awareness course on 24 Sept 21, and this 'expires' 3.5 years later so I'll be collecting 3 points. Never mind. Serves me right for being an arrogant prick.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
I was told once, by someone who should know, that Traffic Police on the Motorway travel at 60 to 65 mph, because if they travel at 70mph, most people won't overtake them, and traffic will back up behind them.
 






ChickenBaltiPie

ChickenBaltiPie

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2014
937
re the 10% tolerance built into speed cameras, it’s not a myth. It is/was (in older cameras) a deliberate tolerance due to variation in the calibration of both the measurement of speed by the cameras sensor(s) and the enormous variety of vehicles and the accuracy of their speedo. A number of factors can influence the reliability of a Speedo in older cars and the sensors in the camera. Police mobile cameras needed to be calibrated regularly and I once got off on a technicality because the police officer that stopped me could not provide proof of calibration (which had to be done at regular intervals) that officers were required to carry proving their guns accuracy.

It is amazing the tangents these threads go off on haha

Anyway, courtesy of my Arsenal supporting mate a moment ago, that has not stopped bombarding me with b0llocks since approx 17:30 on Saturday haha

 
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Wozza

Wozza

Custom title
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
24,363
Minteh Wonderland
ChickenBaltiPie said:
re the 10% tolerance built into speed cameras, it’s not a myth. It is/was (in older cameras) a deliberate tolerance due to variation in the calibration of both the measurement of speed by the cameras sensor(s) and the enormous variety of vehicles and the accuracy of their speedo. A number of factors can influence the reliability of a Speedo in older cars and the sensors in the camera. Police mobile cameras needed to be calibrated regularly and I once got off on a technicality because the police officer that stopped me could not provide proof of calibration that officers were required to carry proving their guns accuracy.

It is amazing the tangents these threads go off on haha

Anyway, courtesy of my Arsenal supporting mate a moment ago, that has not stopped bombarding me with b0llocks since approx 17:30 on Saturday haha

Click to expand...

Arsenal fans finding ‘similar’ (not similar) examples from 2021. Pretty funny.
 
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G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,821
Uffern
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
If we accept a totting up process, what is the rubric? I suggest it is the 'judgement' (aka whim) of the referee. Boo. BOO! Boo.

(Good discussion this.)
Click to expand...
I don't know about football but in rugby that's exactly what it is. I actually asked on my ref's course how many offences before I take action and the course giver said "That's entirely up to you".

It's stressed over again that as a ref you are in sole charge of what happens on the field and a lot of it is your judgment. If football refs are told the same, you can't really complain about a totting up process
 


M

Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,362
London Irish said:
So what fan base are we having major beef with next week - never stops on here. Can’t we have an organised break of sorts
Click to expand...
Very difficult when nearly a third of the PL is represented by an elite group of clubs that have developed enormous support globally and are regarded as the life blood by broadcasters who pump millions into the game.
As a result, you get self-entitled fans who struggle to accept not winning. They then fall into a default position of either stating that they were shite on the day ( no credit to the opposition ) or that officialdom are against them or that their opponents were alllowed to practice dark arts.
The majority of Arsenal fans expected to win on Saturday. They were looking beyond Brighton at home, to Tottenham and Man City away. Fans of the Greedy Six do this all the time. Disrespecting any of the other 12 -14 clubs and only regarding other big six teams as difficult opponents.
They live in a bubble and the real joy in football is pricking that pretentious bubble.
 




G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,821
Uffern
Mo Gosfield said:
As a result, you get self-entitled fans who struggle to accept not winning. They then fall into a default position of either stating that they were shite on the day ( no credit to the opposition ) or that officialdom are against them or that their opponents were alllowed to practice dark arts.
The majority of Arsenal fans expected to win on Saturday. They were looking beyond Brighton at home, to Tottenham and Man City away. Fans of the Greedy Six do this all the time. Disrespecting any of the other 12 -14 clubs and only regarding other big six teams as difficult opponents.
They live in a bubble and the real joy in football is pricking that pretentious bubble.
Click to expand...
I think this is it. And I think it particularly applies to London clubs: Arsenal and Chelsea (Tottenham, not so much). These two seem to attract a bunch of entitled whiners - most of whom seem to know very little about football but want the kudos of being attached to a successful club. Anything that gets in the way of that "success" is seen as an irritant
 




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