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[Politics] The Labour Government



Wozza

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NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
24,392
Minteh Wonderland
1. Foodbanks and Poverty
- Economic Context: The increase in foodbanks since 2010, while concerning, must be viewed within the broader economic context. The UK, like many other countries, faced significant economic challenges following the global financial crisis of 2008. Austerity measures were implemented to reduce the national deficit, and while these policies were harsh, they were intended to restore fiscal stability. The rise in foodbank usage can be attributed to a combination of factors, including greater awareness and availability of foodbanks, changes in the benefits system, and an evolving economy where the nature of employment is changing.
Employment Successes: It’s also important to note that under Conservative leadership, the UK achieved record-high employment rates before the pandemic, suggesting that many policies were successful in creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

2. COVID-19 Response
Unprecedented Challenge:The COVID-19 pandemic was an unprecedented global crisis that caught all governments off-guard. The UK’s response, while not perfect, was on par with many other developed nations that also struggled with similar issues, such as PPE shortages and the rapid spread of the virus in care homes.
Rapid Innovation:The government’s efforts to secure PPE and develop a Track and Trace system were made under immense pressure. Mistakes were made, but this was a common story across the world as governments grappled with a novel virus. Additionally, the UK’s vaccine rollout was one of the fastest in the world, a success that likely saved thousands of lives.
Learning from Mistakes:It's also crucial to acknowledge that the government has since adapted and made changes to improve resilience in the face of future pandemics, with investments in domestic PPE production and new health security infrastructure.

3. Brexit
Democratic Mandate: Brexit was the result of a democratic referendum in which a majority voted to leave the European Union. The government had a mandate to deliver on that decision, and despite the complexity and division it caused, it was ultimately about respecting the will of the people.
Economic Opportunities: While the implementation of Brexit has been challenging, it has also opened up new opportunities for the UK to strike its own trade deals and reassert control over its laws and borders. Over time, these changes could lead to economic benefits and a stronger, more independent global position.
Long-Term Perspective: The full impacts of Brexit are still unfolding, and it is premature to judge its success or failure so soon after its implementation. It’s important to give these policies time to take effect and for the UK to adapt to its new role outside the EU.

4. Populism and Leadership
Populism vs. Representation:The rise of populism within the Conservative Party can be seen as a reflection of a broader global trend where voters feel disconnected from traditional political elites. The election of MPs who championed Brexit and the leadership of figures like Boris Johnson and Liz Truss represent a shift towards a more direct form of representation, where leaders are more attuned to the will of the electorate.
Liz Truss's Tenure:While Liz Truss’s tenure as Prime Minister was brief and her economic policies controversial, it’s worth noting that the Conservative Party acted quickly to rectify the situation, demonstrating a capacity for self-correction. The UK’s economy, while strained, remains resilient, and there has been swift action to stabilize markets and protect homeowners.
5. Labour and Reform UK
Labour's Challenges:Criticisms of Keir Starmer’s Labour Party as being out of touch with public sentiment are not unfounded. Labour has struggled to present a clear and compelling alternative to the Conservatives, and internal divisions have plagued the party for years. This lack of coherence may explain why some voters are skeptical of giving Labour the benefit of the doubt.
Reform As for Reform , it reflects a portion of the electorate that feels their concerns are not being addressed by the major parties. Dismissing them as “cretins” overlooks the genuine frustrations that many people feel. Instead of deriding these voters, it’s important to engage with their concerns and offer constructive solutions.

In conclusion, while the original critique of the Conservative Party highlights valid concerns, it’s important to also consider the complexities of governance, the challenges posed by unprecedented events like COVID-19, and the ongoing impacts of major decisions like Brexit. The Tories have faced significant challenges, but they have also made efforts to adapt and respond to the evolving needs of the country.

And now Loose canon Angie, been mouthing off boasting of her preferential treatment in the NHS, because the doctor was in agreement with her stance on Gaza.

Two tiers everywhere, is this really the look labour are looking for? 🫣☹️
ChatGPT is useful, isn’t it? 👍
 














tedebear

Legal Alien
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Jul 7, 2003
17,117
In my computer
Starmer has either lied , U-turned or broken every promise he made from day one , can anyone genuinely trust what this man will do next ? .

Yes, I can. We are in a pile of deep do do, and probably worse than expected for the new government, so not suprised some things have had to change. How do you suggest we get out of it?

All the moaning is just typical opposition griping. Tories who cocked up our country, not liking someone else trying to fix their crap, so trying to find any little reason to go all trump like and say “we don’t like the bad man”…
 


Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,663
Starmer has either lied , U-turned or broken every promise he made from day one , can anyone genuinely trust what this man will do next ? .
Is this true.

Has VAT gone up? Has income tax gone up? Has NI gone up?

It might be easier if you listed all of the lies so far. It needs to be with the promises actually made not the twisted version from telegraph, Mail and express.

I am a fan of today’s papers saying there will be fights in beer gardens when people light up. I don’t remember this happening inside pubs when the indoor ban came into force.
 


tedebear

Legal Alien
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Jul 7, 2003
17,117
In my computer
Is this true.

Has VAT gone up? Has income tax gone up? Has NI gone up?

It might be easier if you listed all of the lies so far. It needs to be with the promises actually made not the twisted version from telegraph, Mail and express.

I am a fan of today’s papers saying there will be fights in beer gardens when people light up. I don’t remember this happening inside pubs when the indoor ban came into force.

Agree! Australia managed to restrict outdoor smoking in pubs without the country descending into riots, I’m sure we can too…But hey, lets defend our right to kill ourselves if we like, and then if we get sick from it, demand the NHS takes good care of us to the tune far in excess of our NI contributions….
 




pocketseagull

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2014
1,360
Australia managed to restrict outdoor smoking in pubs without the country descending into riots,
Just looked this up and it varies from state to state but Australia has no smoking zones in pub gardens, it's not banned completely. That's not what's planned here? Seems like the best option, give people the choice.
 


tedebear

Legal Alien
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Jul 7, 2003
17,117
In my computer
Just looked this up and it varies from state to state but Australia has no smoking zones in pub gardens, it's not banned completely. That's not what's planned here? Seems like the best option, give people the choice.
In practice lots of them are dingey side of the garden or down the alley way smoking spots. Kind of a backward way of nearly moving to full ban...
 


pocketseagull

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2014
1,360
The plan here is to ban in gardens and outside pubs, so not comparable to Australia where people can still buy a drink and smoke.
 




A1X

Well-known member
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Sep 1, 2017
20,599
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Starmer has either lied , U-turned or broken every promise he made from day one , can anyone genuinely trust what this man will do next ? .
I’ll look forward to your exhaustive list of these promises but I won’t be holding my breath
 


dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,635
Agree! Australia managed to restrict outdoor smoking in pubs without the country descending into riots, I’m sure we can too…But hey, lets defend our right to kill ourselves if we like, and then if we get sick from it, demand the NHS takes good care of us to the tune far in excess of our NI contributions….
Why does it all have to be about money? These are people's lives, and (with fat people and smokers) it is always reduced to the cost-benefit analysis of whether the cost of their treatment is more than the savings from their pension. It would surely be better to look at the social cost of smoking and overeating rather than assessing the worth of a human life based on pounds and pence.
 


Diablo

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2014
4,389
lewes
My take....If you are rich you`re okay,(you can afford it) . If you are really poor a skiver or both you`re ok.(you`re in line for plenty of handouts).

If you are hard working family paying your way on average wage .... Starmer and Reeves are coming for you.(easy option)
 






chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
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Oct 12, 2022
2,703
This thread has become unreadable for me, as it’s just a string of people taking it in turns to waste their time responding to two posters who are not arguing coherently, sincerely or with any further motivation than getting a response.

It’s absolute lunacy to respond to anything @Is it PotG? or his new funtime pal @Right Brain Ronnie posts.

You challenge them, they don’t answer the question you ask, but instead open a new front of argument.

If you’re a mug, you follow them down the rabbit hole, patiently correcting their clearly absurd takes on almost everything, which they love. They don’t care that they’re wrong and they know they’re wrong, they just want to keep you engaged and typing back at them.

Strike out for sanity, put them on ignore and get on with your lives. Giving them the oxygen of responses just encourages them, they don’t argue in good faith, you may as well try to punch fog.
 


Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
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Oct 20, 2022
6,973
This thread has become unreadable for me, as it’s just a string of people taking it in turns to waste their time responding to two posters who are not arguing coherently, sincerely or with any further motivation than getting a response.

It’s absolute lunacy to respond to anything @Is it PotG? or his new funtime pal @Right Brain Ronnie posts.

You challenge them, they don’t answer the question you ask, but instead open a new front of argument.

If you’re a mug, you follow them down the rabbit hole, patiently correcting their clearly absurd takes on almost everything, which they love. They don’t care that they’re wrong and they know they’re wrong, they just want to keep you engaged and typing back at them.

Strike out for sanity, put them on ignore and get on with your lives. Giving them the oxygen of responses just encourages them, they don’t argue in good faith, you may as well try to punch fog.
This isn’t the only thread where this is happening- the US Election thread is the same but with different protagonists . I posted much the same as you did here on that thread last week. As expected, it went down like a ton of bricks. People responding to trolling are equalling derailing threads by constantly challenging other posters with personal attacks. There’s a certain amount of attention seeking and attempts to play to the gallery for reaction on both sides. It makes otherwise good threads boring and unreadable when you have to put all those engaging negatively with trolls on ignore as well as the ones (likely) doing the trolling. I was even criticised for suggesting that people should put trolls on ignore because to do so would give them the freedom to keep posting what they like which was ridiculous (especially when the suggestion came from someone with the biggest ignore list on NSC!)
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,352
Cumbria
This isn’t the only thread where this is happening- the US Election thread is the same but with different protagonists . I posted much the same as you did here on that thread last week. As expected, it went down like a ton of bricks. People responding to trolling are equalling derailing threads by constantly challenging other posters with personal attacks. There’s a certain amount of attention seeking and attempts to play to the gallery for reaction on both sides. It makes otherwise good threads boring and unreadable when you have to put all those engaging negatively with trolls on ignore as well as the ones (likely) doing the trolling. I was even criticised for suggesting that people should put trolls on ignore because to do so would give them the freedom to keep posting what they like which was ridiculous (especially when the suggestion came from someone with the biggest ignore list on NSC!)
A little unfair I feel.

I read your post (5,107) on the US Election thread; which I thought was fair comment - and as I guess it was partly aimed at me - have taken note of it. I haven't seen anyone quote your post in a negative way at all. I don't think anyone has criticised you. Indeed, the only two people who have quoted it were one who agreed that ignoring posters was a good idea, and the other responder was the very person that is the main problem for decent discussion on there (ie: the one who posts nonsense and the rest of us challenge [and I can't help but note that you have challenged him for posting nonsense yourself in 5,140]). And I can't see the post about the second bold bit at all - maybe it was on a different thread.

But yes, I agree - it would be best if we ignored PoTG, Right Brain Ronnie and Crawley Dingo, because they seem to be here solely to wind people up. And I am afraid it is only human nature to get a bit wound-up by wind-up merchants. They are very good at what they do!
 




rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
8,205
My take....If you are rich you`re okay,(you can afford it) . If you are really poor a skiver or both you`re ok.(you`re in line for plenty of handouts).

If you are hard working family paying your way on average wage .... Starmer and Reeves are coming for you.(easy option)
did you vote for the socialist workers party?
 


DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
17,361
Starmer has either lied , U-turned or broken every promise he made from day one , can anyone genuinely trust what this man will do next ? .
You’re confusing him with Boris Johnson
 


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