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[Politics] The Labour Government



drew

drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,576
Burgess Hill
Right Brain Ronnie said:
Let's face it you can't judge the Tories fairly since COVID as there are no metrics to compare fairly against. The 14 years of failure on washes with the left wing.

The facts are Starmer isn't popular and got in by the back door because the Tories left it wide open with a sign saying welcome on it. Reform are still surging forward and will take a good few of labours voters if Starmer remains in place.
Click to expand...
Of course you can judge the Tories without hiding behind Covid! As Simster pointed out, they pretty much spent the whole crisis making poor decisions, starting with Johnson not even bothering to attend COBR meetings as the world descended into crisis.

As for SKS getting in the back door, cast your mind back to 2010 when the client media successfully, but incorrectly, blamed Labour for the worst global financial crisis since Wall St yet Cameron still couldn't win a majority, let alone the mandate that KSk has got.
 








Peteinblack

Peteinblack

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jun 3, 2004
4,132
Bath, Somerset.
Is it PotG? said:
I just have.

Not only will the Government not raise the money it wants to, it will also impose huge costs on the wider economy. Landlords may be widely maligned, but the blunt truth is that Britain needs a large number of rented properties, given the very high levels of immigration, and needs lots of foreign students to keep our failing universities afloat. When they leave the market, it will drive astronomical rents even higher, and make the housing crisis even worse, as well as pushing up inflation.

Let's see where we are in 6 months time on this one.
Click to expand...
If landlords sell-up, then there will be more homes for renters to buy, so they will no longer need to rent! At the moment, in many cases, when a house is put up for sale, it is snapped-up as an investment by a buy-to-let landlord, thus depriving a couple or young family from buying it - whereupon they are forced to rent.

Meanwhile, because landlords can charge exorbitant rents - any suggestion of rent controls or caps is denounced as Communist - taxpayers are currently subsidising these landlords to the tune of £18 billion per year in Housing Benefit.

I know of a landlord who rents-out 48 houses. You'll say "Good entrepreneurial chap, providing 48 homes for people to rent." I say "Greedy selfish ****, effectively preventing 48 couples or families from buying a home.

As to the point about that universities needing to attract overseas students, yes, but they should build/provide their own accommodation for students; what happens currently is that universities recruit as many students as they want - lucrative bums on seats - but have no responsibility to house them, at least not in their 2nd and 3rd Year. Hence in any university town, there will be a suburb which has become a slummy student ghetto, with virtually whole streets owned by a handful of landlords who are raking it in. Universities also rake the money in, but - as businesses - don't give shit about the impact on the local community.

In housing and in Higher Education, 'the market' has proved to be an absolute disaster for many ordinary people and communities.
 
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M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,751
Fiveways
Is it PotG? said:
I just have.

Not only will the Government not raise the money it wants to, it will also impose huge costs on the wider economy. Landlords may be widely maligned, but the blunt truth is that Britain needs a large number of rented properties, given the very high levels of immigration, and needs lots of foreign students to keep our failing universities afloat. When they leave the market, it will drive astronomical rents even higher, and make the housing crisis even worse, as well as pushing up inflation.

Let's see where we are in 6 months time on this one.
Click to expand...
They could have council housing and social housing liked they used to, before property became a great big game for spivs and foreign investors to play but, instead, you're on here bleating about how tough landlords have it.
 




M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,751
Fiveways


Is it PotG?

Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,413
Sussex by the Sea
Machiavelli said:
They could have council housing and social housing liked they used to, before property became a great big game for spivs and foreign investors to play but, instead, you're on here bleating about how tough landlords have it.
Click to expand...
Nothing of the sort, simply pointing out that this CGT boost will lead to many BtL owners placing properties on the market to reduce their liability.
Common sense
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,938
Surrey
Is it PotG? said:
Nothing of the sort, simply pointing out that this CGT boost will lead to many BtL owners placing properties on the market to reduce their liability.
Common sense
Click to expand...
If that is common sense then maybe it's worth pointing out that perhaps that is the desired effect. i.e. BtL landlords will dump their assets on the market, thus driving prices down, thus making house buying more affordable.

Governments should be encouraging investment in industry, not in buying up housing stock so as to make profits purely because it diminishes the saleable stock.

As @beorhthelm says, "won't somebody think of the landlords" is a very odd hill to sit on.
 




D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,615
Peteinblack said:
If landlords sell-up, then there will be more homes for renters to buy, so they will no longer need to rent! At the moment, in many cases, when a house is put up for sale, it is snapped-up as an investment by a buy-to-let landlord, thus depriving a couple or young family from buying it - whereupon they are forced to rent.

Meanwhile, because landlords can charge exorbitant rents - any suggestion of rent controls or caps is denounced as Communist - taxpayers are currently subsidising these landlords to the tune of £18 billion per year in Housing Benefit.

I know of a landlord who rents-out 48 houses. You'll say "Good entrepreneurial chap, providing 48 homes for people to rent." I say "Greedy selfish ****, effectively preventing 48 couples or families from buying a home.

As to the point about that universities needing to attract overseas students, yes, but they should build/provide their own accommodation for students; what happens currently is that universities recruit as many students as they want - lucrative bums on seats - but have no responsibility to house them, at least not in their 2nd and 3rd Year. Hence in any university town, there will be a suburb which has become a slummy student ghetto, with virtually whole streets owned by a handful of landlords who are raking it in. Universities also rake the money in, but - as businesses - don't give shit about the impact on the local community.

In housing and in Higher Education, 'the market' has proved to be an absolute disaster for many ordinary people and communities.
Click to expand...
I think perhaps you're underestimating the difficulties of getting a mortgage. How easy do you think it is, for example, for an unemployed single parent to get a mortgage? Or a couple on the state pension with no savings? If the landlord is forced or persuaded to put his 48 tenants onto the streets, not all of them will be willing or able to buy something.

Remember that for every rented property that is sold, we have a landlord who is obliged to invest his money somewhere else, and we have a tenant who is homeless. Who suffers more?
 


D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,615
Machiavelli said:
They could have council housing and social housing liked they used to, before property became a great big game for spivs and foreign investors to play but, instead, you're on here bleating about how tough landlords have it.
Click to expand...
Council housing, even "like they used to", has a lot of drawbacks. Unless councils can be persuaded to buy significantly more properties than the rental market needs, it is not fit for the same purposes that rental houses provide.

For example, as it stands, if I rent a property near Burnley and someone offers me a job in Brighton, I can be out of my rented property and into a new one in Brighton within a week, probably; a month, certainly. How long would it take me, in the past, present or future times, to get to the top of the Brighton & Hove waiting list?

Or if I don't like my present council house or my circumstances change and I want to move, will the council be able to oblige me in a matter of days, or will it take forever?

The answer to high house prices is simple. Instead of trying to reallocate the current housing stock in favour of the relativel yaffluent young and against people who need to rent, then they should just build (or allow to be built) more houses. Ignoring costs of land, the build price of a decent 4-bedroom semi is less than £200k, at least in the north, and there is no reason it should be vastly different elsewhere. The build price of a row of terraces would be significantly less. There is profit in it for house builders if the government (and the Tories were guilty here) are allowed to build them.
 


A

amexer

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2011
6,809
About 28% of total tax income is obtained fom the 1% biggest taxpayers
About 60% of total income is obtained from the 10% biggest tax payers.

Proves how vital these are to the economy. Always felt when we are in trouble should work with these people. If politics had a real leader they could negotiate with this group to contribute extra and assure them a review would take place after say a year. They would of course want some indication of where the extra taxes would go but unfortunately long time since we had politicians they would have faith in.
 




B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,155
Cumbria
Right Brain Ronnie said:
1. Foodbanks and Poverty
- Economic Context: The increase in foodbanks since 2010, while concerning, must be viewed within the broader economic context. The UK, like many other countries, faced significant economic challenges following the global financial crisis of 2008. Austerity measures were implemented to reduce the national deficit, and while these policies were harsh, they were intended to restore fiscal stability. The rise in foodbank usage can be attributed to a combination of factors, including greater awareness and availability of foodbanks, changes in the benefits system, and an evolving economy where the nature of employment is changing.
Employment Successes: It’s also important to note that under Conservative leadership, the UK achieved record-high employment rates before the pandemic, suggesting that many policies were successful in creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

2. COVID-19 Response
Unprecedented Challenge:The COVID-19 pandemic was an unprecedented global crisis that caught all governments off-guard. The UK’s response, while not perfect, was on par with many other developed nations that also struggled with similar issues, such as PPE shortages and the rapid spread of the virus in care homes.
Rapid Innovation:The government’s efforts to secure PPE and develop a Track and Trace system were made under immense pressure. Mistakes were made, but this was a common story across the world as governments grappled with a novel virus. Additionally, the UK’s vaccine rollout was one of the fastest in the world, a success that likely saved thousands of lives.
Learning from Mistakes:It's also crucial to acknowledge that the government has since adapted and made changes to improve resilience in the face of future pandemics, with investments in domestic PPE production and new health security infrastructure.

3. Brexit
Democratic Mandate: Brexit was the result of a democratic referendum in which a majority voted to leave the European Union. The government had a mandate to deliver on that decision, and despite the complexity and division it caused, it was ultimately about respecting the will of the people.
Economic Opportunities: While the implementation of Brexit has been challenging, it has also opened up new opportunities for the UK to strike its own trade deals and reassert control over its laws and borders. Over time, these changes could lead to economic benefits and a stronger, more independent global position.
Long-Term Perspective: The full impacts of Brexit are still unfolding, and it is premature to judge its success or failure so soon after its implementation. It’s important to give these policies time to take effect and for the UK to adapt to its new role outside the EU.

4. Populism and Leadership
Populism vs. Representation:The rise of populism within the Conservative Party can be seen as a reflection of a broader global trend where voters feel disconnected from traditional political elites. The election of MPs who championed Brexit and the leadership of figures like Boris Johnson and Liz Truss represent a shift towards a more direct form of representation, where leaders are more attuned to the will of the electorate.
Liz Truss's Tenure:While Liz Truss’s tenure as Prime Minister was brief and her economic policies controversial, it’s worth noting that the Conservative Party acted quickly to rectify the situation, demonstrating a capacity for self-correction. The UK’s economy, while strained, remains resilient, and there has been swift action to stabilize markets and protect homeowners.
5. Labour and Reform UK
Labour's Challenges:Criticisms of Keir Starmer’s Labour Party as being out of touch with public sentiment are not unfounded. Labour has struggled to present a clear and compelling alternative to the Conservatives, and internal divisions have plagued the party for years. This lack of coherence may explain why some voters are skeptical of giving Labour the benefit of the doubt.
Reform As for Reform , it reflects a portion of the electorate that feels their concerns are not being addressed by the major parties. Dismissing them as “cretins” overlooks the genuine frustrations that many people feel. Instead of deriding these voters, it’s important to engage with their concerns and offer constructive solutions.

In conclusion, while the original critique of the Conservative Party highlights valid concerns, it’s important to also consider the complexities of governance, the challenges posed by unprecedented events like COVID-19, and the ongoing impacts of major decisions like Brexit. The Tories have faced significant challenges, but they have also made efforts to adapt and respond to the evolving needs of the country.

And now Loose canon Angie, been mouthing off boasting of her preferential treatment in the NHS, because the doctor was in agreement with her stance on Gaza.

Two tiers everywhere, is this really the look labour are looking for? 🫣☹️
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily agree with the content - but this is extremely well-written and put together.

I must admit to feeling a little surprised.
 


Is it PotG?

Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,413
Sussex by the Sea
Simster said:
If that is common sense then maybe it's worth pointing out that perhaps that is the desired effect. i.e. BtL landlords will dump their assets on the market, thus driving prices down, thus making house buying more affordable.

Governments should be encouraging investment in industry, not in buying up housing stock so as to make profits purely because it diminishes the saleable stock.

As @beorhthelm says, "won't somebody think of the landlords" is a very odd hill to sit on.
Click to expand...
Maybe Jas Athwal can invest in some more properties
 








Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,938
Surrey
Is it PotG? said:
Which bit do you find difficult?

Numerous BtL owners will sell on the market due to the CGT hike. Who knows what sort of folk will buy them up?

Let's hope they're responsible landlords.
Click to expand...
None of it is difficult to understand. In fact I wouldn't even think it was wrong.

I'm simply pointing out that it might be an effective way to bring down house prices, and that this might be a good thing because BtL is exacerbating the supply shortfall if houses to buy.

All of which I already said in my reply to you, and to which you glibly responded with some crap about what a Labour MP might do.

Why do you need this explaining to you?
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,692
Bodian said:
Right Brain Ronnie said:
1. Foodbanks and Poverty
- Economic Context: The increase in foodbanks since 2010, while concerning, must be viewed within the broader economic context. The UK, like many other countries, faced significant economic challenges following the global financial crisis of 2008. Austerity measures were implemented to reduce the national deficit, and while these policies were harsh, they were intended to restore fiscal stability. The rise in foodbank usage can be attributed to a combination of factors, including greater awareness and availability of foodbanks, changes in the benefits system, and an evolving economy where the nature of employment is changing.
Employment Successes: It’s also important to note that under Conservative leadership, the UK achieved record-high employment rates before the pandemic, suggesting that many policies were successful in creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

2. COVID-19 Response
Unprecedented Challenge:The COVID-19 pandemic was an unprecedented global crisis that caught all governments off-guard. The UK’s response, while not perfect, was on par with many other developed nations that also struggled with similar issues, such as PPE shortages and the rapid spread of the virus in care homes.
Rapid Innovation:The government’s efforts to secure PPE and develop a Track and Trace system were made under immense pressure. Mistakes were made, but this was a common story across the world as governments grappled with a novel virus. Additionally, the UK’s vaccine rollout was one of the fastest in the world, a success that likely saved thousands of lives.
Learning from Mistakes:It's also crucial to acknowledge that the government has since adapted and made changes to improve resilience in the face of future pandemics, with investments in domestic PPE production and new health security infrastructure.

3. Brexit
Democratic Mandate: Brexit was the result of a democratic referendum in which a majority voted to leave the European Union. The government had a mandate to deliver on that decision, and despite the complexity and division it caused, it was ultimately about respecting the will of the people.
Economic Opportunities: While the implementation of Brexit has been challenging, it has also opened up new opportunities for the UK to strike its own trade deals and reassert control over its laws and borders. Over time, these changes could lead to economic benefits and a stronger, more independent global position.
Long-Term Perspective: The full impacts of Brexit are still unfolding, and it is premature to judge its success or failure so soon after its implementation. It’s important to give these policies time to take effect and for the UK to adapt to its new role outside the EU.

4. Populism and Leadership
Populism vs. Representation:The rise of populism within the Conservative Party can be seen as a reflection of a broader global trend where voters feel disconnected from traditional political elites. The election of MPs who championed Brexit and the leadership of figures like Boris Johnson and Liz Truss represent a shift towards a more direct form of representation, where leaders are more attuned to the will of the electorate.
Liz Truss's Tenure:While Liz Truss’s tenure as Prime Minister was brief and her economic policies controversial, it’s worth noting that the Conservative Party acted quickly to rectify the situation, demonstrating a capacity for self-correction. The UK’s economy, while strained, remains resilient, and there has been swift action to stabilize markets and protect homeowners.
5. Labour and Reform UK
Labour's Challenges:Criticisms of Keir Starmer’s Labour Party as being out of touch with public sentiment are not unfounded. Labour has struggled to present a clear and compelling alternative to the Conservatives, and internal divisions have plagued the party for years. This lack of coherence may explain why some voters are skeptical of giving Labour the benefit of the doubt.
Reform As for Reform , it reflects a portion of the electorate that feels their concerns are not being addressed by the major parties. Dismissing them as “cretins” overlooks the genuine frustrations that many people feel. Instead of deriding these voters, it’s important to engage with their concerns and offer constructive solutions.

In conclusion, while the original critique of the Conservative Party highlights valid concerns, it’s important to also consider the complexities of governance, the challenges posed by unprecedented events like COVID-19, and the ongoing impacts of major decisions like Brexit. The Tories have faced significant challenges, but they have also made efforts to adapt and respond to the evolving needs of the country.

And now Loose canon Angie, been mouthing off boasting of her preferential treatment in the NHS, because the doctor was in agreement with her stance on Gaza.

Two tiers everywhere, is this really the look labour are looking for? 🫣☹️
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily agree with the content - but this is extremely well-written and put together.

I must admit to feeling a little surprised.
Click to expand...

Totally out of character (well, this character at least) it's almost as if they're so busy with @Simster they've forgotten which account they're on:laugh:
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,155
Cumbria
WATFORD zero said:
Totally out of character (well, this character at least) it's almost as if they're so busy with @Simster they've forgotten which account they're on:laugh:
Click to expand...
Maybe it was cut and paste from somewhere. I'm sure @Right Brain Ronnie will provide the link for us if it was. Otherwise we might think that the account is for a made up character with special characteristics. But I can't believe someone would do that, would they?
 






Right Brain Ronnie

Right Brain Ronnie

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2023
614
North of North
Bodian said:
I don't necessarily agree with the content - but this is extremely well-written and put together.

I must admit to feeling a little surprised.
Click to expand...
Thank you, but it did take me 2 hours to do, I won't be doing that again anytime soon, I can tell you.
 


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