Baldseagull
Well-known member
You can be a friend of a nation without being a supporter of the Governing party, or parties, of that country, and in particular their actions.
But a good friend tells you when you are being a ****.
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
But a good friend tells you when you are being a ****.
What is the point of the group other than to demonstrate our fealty to Israel and for MPs to take money from Israeli lobbyists? I'm not sure everyone would be as nonchalant if half of Labour were part of a group called "Friends of Saudi" and taking donations.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
It's a group that is pro Israel, as a nation. It doesn't mean they are pro genocide in Gaza.
It would be a bit extreme to say that because this Israeli Government is so awful, we no longer believe in Israel as a country.
But they should be the MPs saying the most about Israel needing to stop the slaughter.
Disbanding the group would in no way saying we no longer believe in Israel. It would simply indicate we can no longer back a hard right government carrying out plausible genocide and decades prior of war crimes and Apartheid. More immediately important than this lobby group than is the halting of arm sales being used to commit said war crimes.
Obviously the lobby money would then disappear but I would say that's a win for the UK and our democracy
Let's be real though - it's never going to happen just because of the blowback from the US alone but it would be the blindingly obviously moral decision.
armchairclubber
Well-known member
It's not just the acceptance of donations from Israel lobbyists, its the conveniently inconsistent stance.
Angela Rayner promising to do everything Labour can for a ceasefire and that they would recognise Palestine, though still allowing arms sales licenses to Israel (I'm not sure she even voted on that one) and Lammy then saying Palestine will be recognised "when circumstances are right."
Labour only seem interested in the rebuilding of Gaza after they have given Israel enough time to do as it pleases. They'll be wanting lots of fingers in pies then, I'm sure of that.
Not abiding by International Law. Complicit in the continued slaughter. Hardly a friend to innocent Palestinians as well as Israel. Hardly impartial.
Anything else is just lip service, we've already had and will continue to have plenty of that. Taking donations from Israel lobbyists, FOI etc and continuing with arms sales licences is hardly going to have any impartial or long lasting peaceful influence or solution, even if Lammy thinks so. It's surely laughable to Israel and a total cop out.
The only thing Starmers Labour front bench have been consistent in regarding this horrific affair is being pathetically inconsistent and complicit in the Genocide taking place in Gaza, not seeing any significant change to previous govt.
You don't have to be good friends of the Labour front bench to tell them when they're being *****, though it may help, if those that voted for them can see beyond the end of their noses.
Stop the torture of Palestinian prisoners: Write to David Lammy
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Baldseagull
Well-known member
I understand, but anything the UK does in isolation is just a gesture, and may risk security relations with Israel and the US.
The political situation in the US is going to limit what pressure they feel they can bring to bear on Israel, making a public stand won't change anything positively for Palestinians. It could limit the UK ability to influence Israel though.
I am hoping that behind the scenes strong efforts are being made.
- Feb 22, 2014
- 2,805
I have been pretty naïve politically, in not realising that AIPAC used to be AZPAC. They changed their name from American Zionist Public Affairs Committee to American Israeli PAC. I never knew this until I Googled it recently. They have conflated Zionism into Israel and therefore any criticism is obviously anti-semetic except it isn’t. Zionists allied with the NAZIs to persecute Jews because their aim was a homeland for Jews and any Jews that didn’t share their ideal were expendable. They have manipulated public opinion to the extent that any criticism of the Israeli Government is perceived to be anti-semetic even if it comes from Jews.
aolstudios
Well-known member
Your post is not only completely untrue but that particular, often used trope (by professional racists & cynical liars) breaches IHRA big style & would see you suspended or sacked from many jobs if you were to post it on social media.
You might want to be more careful
- Feb 22, 2014
- 2,805
Why do you tell me it is completely untrue? Have you read the book “Zionism during the Holocaust” by Tony Greenstein, a Brighton resident I believe. You can get it on Amazon for free and it may well educate you. The IHRA that you quote is funded by Mossad. Is that the basis of your arguement?
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aolstudios
Well-known member
Hilarious.
Tony Greenstein. The nutbag described by a judge as "the notorious Antisemite"? That one?.
Quote him at your peril mate
- Feb 22, 2014
- 2,805
Antisemite by what definition? IHRA has been discredited as it is being funded by Mossad. Zionism equates to racism and Israel is an Apartheid state. Do you really think you can argue otherwise? You may be well meaning, I don’t know you. If you can look at the pictures we see from Gaza and still defend Israel then I despair. Please try to defend your view. I will be interested to hear your views.
aolstudios
Well-known member
You really are dangerously brainwashed.
I hope you're well meaning too but your sources certainly aren't
- Feb 22, 2014
- 2,805
Is that it? Is that all you have got? Must admit I don’t see how you could defend genocide.
aolstudios
Well-known member
I don't. I'm pointing out that you are misinformed.
Utterly
armchairclubber
Well-known member
Is that you don't defend a Genocide that you now accept is taking place?
Or is it that you don't accept that a Genocide is taking place?
aolstudios
Well-known member
What do you think, my little obsessive Jew hating acquaintance?
Too far. Thread ban.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
It's not right to lump all forms of zionism into one. As far as I know, only the Stern Gang made attempts to form some arrangement with Nazis, and that was in order to attack the British, not persecute Jews.
From the other end, I have seen some suggestion that Nazis tried to arrange with Palestinian Jewish leaders to enable them to ship European Jews forcibly to Palestine.
I believe the official line from Jewish leaders at the time, was to fight the Nazis like there were no British, and fight the British like there was no war.
There are zionists that completely disagree with there being an Israeli state, and zionists that want an entirely Jewish state, zionist Christians, and a lot of Jews that are waiting for a messiah to lead them into Israel and think its wrong to try and go back till he gets here.
I will agree that currently there is an issue with Israeli Government trying to expand the definition of antisemitism unjustifiably.
Labour complicit in war crimes?
British Foreign Office diplomat Mark Smith resigns over Israel arms sales
The official resigned over arms sales to Israel, saying the UK government "may be complicit in war crimes".
www.bbc.co.uk
Baldseagull
Well-known member
They will be if they ignore any illegality found in the review they say is currently in process.Labour complicit in war crimes?
British Foreign Office diplomat Mark Smith resigns over Israel arms sales
The official resigned over arms sales to Israel, saying the UK government "may be complicit in war crimes".www.bbc.co.uk
The question for me is will the review be completed before there is an end to the fighting, and will they still implement a ban if it finds Israel to not be compliant but the fighting is over?
Politically a very difficult situation, Israel is almost certainly commiting war crimes, but is also very powerful in lobbying Western Governments, and influencing the Jewish opinion in Western countries.
I don't want to say Israel is paranoid, because it faces real threats, but because of that, it is quick to react to any criticism, won't accept any criticism, and goes on the offensive to tackle criticism.