[News] Ofwat to basically deregulate water companies….

The Clamp · May 28, 2024

Pandering to the share holders. Ofwat reduce penalties and give private water companies more leeway to pollute rivers and waterways.

What the F?

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Motogull · May 28, 2024

Bunch of kunnts.

Weststander · May 28, 2024

Nationalise them whilst they’re struggling (share value suppressed).

But don’t think it’ll be a panacea for all ills. Welsh Water is not for profit, yet is roundly despised for lying to the regulator/public about leaks, it’s also a prolific polluter of sewage.

abc · May 28, 2024

The Clamp said:
Pandering to the share holders. Ofwat reduce penalties and give private water companies more leeway to pollute rivers and waterways.

What the F?

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This is farcical. The water companies (all? I’m not sure) are poisoning our rivers and seas because of their failure to meet their legal responsibilities. How is saying they will not be penalised if they continue to do so make them more responsible? Madness.

Weststander · May 28, 2024

abc said:
This is farcical. The water companies (all? I’m not sure) are poisoning our rivers and seas because of their failure to meet their legal responsibilities. How is saying they will not be penalised if they continue to do so make them more responsible? Madness.

The Ofwat boss won’t have time to rush this through. Hopefully. From 5 July the new secretary of state should start to look after the interests of us and our environment.

BrightonCottager · May 28, 2024

This is worth listening to. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001yxl5?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

It explains how poor regulation (aided and abetted by rubbish government oversight, deliberately in the case of the Tories) have let this happen. Interestingly, the Government held a 'golden share' in Thames Water until the 2000s. One expert doesn't think that nationalisation is the answer but suggests proper regulation and breaking up water companies.

Both Welsh Water and Scottish Water are public / not for profit and still guilty of stormwater overflows not being open and transparent. I believe that the public sector should have a casting vote ie golden share and that regulation MUST be tougher. This would mean there would still be an element of private investment but financial regulation must prevent them loading debt onto the balance sheet and paying shareholders from our Water charges. The environmental regulator must ensure investment keeps pace with climate change and population growth. And Water needs to be managed on a river basin level.

This is the first time that sewage pollution may be a significant election issue since I've been campaigning on it (early 90s) and I'll be using my vote for the Ocean.

Weststander · May 28, 2024

BrightonCottager said:
This is worth listening to. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001yxl5?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

It explains how poor regulation (aided and abetted by rubbish government oversight, deliberately in the case of the Tories) have let this happen. Interestingly, the Government held a 'golden share' in Thames Water until the 2000s. One expert doesn't think that nationalisation is the answer but suggests proper regulation and breaking up water companies.

Both Welsh Water and Scottish Water are public / not for profit and still guilty of stormwater overflows not being open and transparent. I believe that the public sector should have a casting vote ie golden share and that regulation MUST be tougher. This would mean there would still be an element of private investment but financial regulation must prevent them loading debt onto the balance sheet and paying shareholders from our Water charges. The environmental regulator must ensure investment keeps pace with climate change and population growth. And Water needs to be managed on a river basin level.

This is the first time that sewage pollution may be a significant election issue since I've been campaigning on it (early 90s) and I'll be using my vote for the Ocean.

That makes complete sense. You’d know this already, too …. most flooding and resulting sewage overflow can be prevented. Planting breaks and copses on hillsides, multiple breaks to rivulets, allowing managed flooding on plains (havens for fauna) and policing the installation of permeable surfaces on paved over driveways …. this is ignored in reality. Literally a systems approach.

Seagull58 · May 28, 2024

Proper regulation is required whether they are public or private.

Scappa · May 28, 2024

All CEOs and shareholders - and their extended families - be made to take a dip in the sea on a monthly basis?

dippy2449 · May 28, 2024

The Clamp said:
Pandering to the share holders. Ofwat reduce penalties and give private water companies more leeway to pollute rivers and waterways.

What the F?

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Its what they do!! Most of the water companies have no idea where their infrastructure is, so while we are being told to save water, billions of gallons are leaking who knows where.
Thames water about to go bust, I wonder who will have to bail them out while the hierarchy give themselves big fat bonuses?

jackanada · May 29, 2024

It's that we get this story that our bills have to go up to invest in infrastructure.
Well our bills already went up with this excuse several times, and mainly infrastructure was sold off, usually in a Goldstone like being sold on for several times more shortly after way.
We know about the billions paid out to shareholders and directors, but it's worse than the headline figure because the water companies don't do much themselves anymore having divested themselves of staff, skills and plant. There's another level of two of profit taking before you get a contractor actually doing work.
Of course they will also say running costs have risen unexpectedly. Well a little bit but mainly interest rates went up and their cunning ploy of taking on vast amounts of debt to line pockets and to deter nationalisation became a lot more expensive.
So to recap we once owned the water. We practically have it away and spent the money on tax cuts for the very rich, who ended up owning most of the water, sold lots of bits cheap to there rich mates, didn't do any of the work but inflated the bills of the poor, spent decades borrowing money against the water to give to the extremely rich and now we need to take even more money from poor people so they can keep paying off those loans that are making the absurdly rich even richer.

Oh yeah and they did briefly keep some of the shit out the sea because Europe would meaningfully fine them if they didn't but the moment we left Europe mysteriously gave up the idea of waste treatment as it's much more expensive than just pumping it into the sea.

abc · May 29, 2024

Weststander said:
The Ofwat boss won’t have time to rush this through. Hopefully. From 5 July the new secretary of state should start to look after the interests of us and our environment.

Thankfully true. Quite what the new S of S can do to produce the enormous change that is needed is currently beyond me though. The level of investment required is so huge now I don’t see how the taxpayer can afford it if nationalised (so many other priorities needing £billions) and keeping it in private hands will continue the failures.

mikeyjh · May 29, 2024

Weststander said:
Nationalise them whilst they’re struggling (share value suppressed).

But don’t think it’ll be a panacea for all ills. Welsh Water is not for profit, yet is roundly despised for lying to the regulator/public about leaks, it’s also a prolific polluter of sewage.

While Welsh Water (Dŵr Cymru) is 'not for profit', it's not publicly owned - The parent company, Glas Cymru was created by a former merchant banker so, as you can imagine, not in it for the giggles. Some people make a lot of money from the company, their debt is funded offshore to the tune of £4.16bn in 2023 which, as you can imagine, takes a lot of servicing.

Westdene Seagull · May 29, 2024

Weststander said:
Nationalise them whilst they’re struggling (share value suppressed).

But don’t think it’ll be a panacea for all ills. Welsh Water is not for profit, yet is roundly despised for lying to the regulator/public about leaks, it’s also a prolific polluter of sewage.

You can actually pollute sewage ?

Brovion · May 29, 2024

Weststander said:
Nationalise them whilst they’re struggling (share value suppressed).

But don’t think it’ll be a panacea for all ills. Welsh Water is not for profit, yet is roundly despised for lying to the regulator/public about leaks, it’s also a prolific polluter of sewage.

Yes. As we have seen from the NHS (sadly several times) to the Post Office and the Police being publicly-owned doesn't stop an organisation from being a lying incompetent bunch of ****s interested only in preventing reputational damage.

I still think nationalisation is a step forward though, not least because it removes one of the drivers: trying to reduce costs to generate more profits.

Harry Wilson's tackle · May 29, 2024

Weststander said:
Nationalise them whilst they’re struggling (share value suppressed).

But don’t think it’ll be a panacea for all ills. Welsh Water is not for profit, yet is roundly despised for lying to the regulator/public about leaks, it’s also a prolific polluter of sewage.

The culture permeates the piece. Do you imagine that HMG is giving Welsh Water the money it needs? I doubt it.

Weststander · May 29, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
The culture permeates the piece. Do you imagine that HMG is giving Welsh Water the money it needs? I doubt it.

Haven't water rates/£ meterage risen exponentially over the last 25 years? Our water bills in 1999 were tiny to modest in actual and real terms, whilst now it's a major household bill. Have the companies spent their vast income ineffectively?

I do however agree about other essential services e.g. railways.

Weststander · May 29, 2024

Brovion said:
Yes. As we have seen from the NHS (sadly several times) to the Post Office and the Police being publicly-owned doesn't stop an organisation from being a lying incompetent bunch of ****s interested only in preventing reputational damage.

I still think nationalisation is a step forward though, not least because it removes one of the drivers: trying to reduce costs to generate more profits.

Railways (the lot) and water ... should be in public hands.

Harry Wilson's tackle · May 29, 2024

Weststander said:
Haven't water rates/£ meterage risen exponentially over the last 25 years? Our water bills in 1999 were tiny to modest in actual and real terms, whilst now it's a major household bill. Have the companies spent their vast income ineffectively?

I do however agree about other essential services e.g. railways.

My tiny point was that Welsh water are messing up because they are state owned and the state is not giving them the money they need to run a non polluting system. The private water companies are choosing to direct money to their shareholders. The outcome is the same.

Weststander · May 29, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
My tiny point was that Welsh water are messing up because they are state owned and the state is not giving them the money they need to run a non polluting system. The private water companies are choosing to direct money to their shareholders. The outcome is the same.

I did realise that .... I thought you were intimating that UK taxpayers should 'pump' funds into Welsh Water and solve their many ills?

I disagree with that. It's a devious SNP argument .... when they patently fail on a raft of issues, they always blame Westminster.

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