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what the fook is reverse swing?



Brighton TID

New member
Jul 24, 2005
1,741
Horsham
i'm happy with the principle of IN or OUT swing.

but just what is reverse swing? is it when the ball reaches the batter, it turns around 180 like its on elastic?
 




RonnieO'Sullivan

New member
Feb 21, 2005
2,823
Brighton TID said:
i'm happy with the principle of IN or OUT swing.

but just what is reverse swing? is it when the ball reaches the batter, it turns around 180 like its on elastic?

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

Genius.
 


Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,664
Telford
Reverse as in opposite not reverse as in backwards ....

Basically the ball swings in (to a r/hander) using the away-swing grip and seam/shine position.

Only happens with the older ball - all very technical ...
 


Muhammed - I’m hard - Bruce Lee

You can't change fighters
NSC Patron
Jul 25, 2005
10,895
on a pig farm
its when you go to a CERTAIN sort of party but end up copping of with a geezer
 


Bwian

Kiss my (_!_)
Jul 14, 2003
15,898
Brighton TID said:
i'm happy with the principle of IN or OUT swing.

but just what is reverse swing? is it when the ball reaches the batter, it turns around 180 like its on elastic?

I think you are being a very naughty boy-pretending to know less than me about cricket:lolol:
 




Grizz

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 5, 2003
1,463
Bowlers like Flintoff and Jones swing the ball very well and do so by the way they grip the ball and how the seam hits the pitch to produce the swing. This can be done two ways either into the batsman or away from the batsman.

Now when the ball gets older you see the players wetting one side of the ball and rubbing along their trousers. This polishes one side of the ball so when the ball makes contact with the pitch the smoother side doesn't grip as much and so reverse swing is the end result as the ball isn't swinging the conventional way. The batsman thinks it's going to swing into his pads/bat so plays the appropriate attacking or defending shot, but of the ball does the opposite and so the can either edge it or produce a catching opportunity.

That's why you see Freddie covering the cricket ball with both hands before he balls so the batsman can't see the polished side and so which way the ball will swing.

Or so i understand it. I'll stand corrected if not.

Grizz
 


JonC

New member
Oct 18, 2004
197
Grizz said:
Bowlers like Flintoff and Jones swing the ball very well and do so by the way they grip the ball and how the seam hits the pitch to produce the swing. This can be done two ways either into the batsman or away from the batsman.

Or so i understand it. I'll stand corrected if not.

Grizz

Surely swing is in the air, not how the seam hits the pitch?
 


Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,664
Telford
Grizz said:
Bowlers like Flintoff and Jones swing the ball very well and do so by the way they grip the ball and how the seam hits the pitch to produce the swing. This can be done two ways either into the batsman or away from the batsman.

Now when the ball gets older you see the players wetting one side of the ball and rubbing along their trousers. This polishes one side of the ball so when the ball makes contact with the pitch the smoother side doesn't grip as much and so reverse swing is the end result as the ball isn't swinging the conventional way. The batsman thinks it's going to swing into his pads/bat so plays the appropriate attacking or defending shot, but of the ball does the opposite and so the can either edge it or produce a catching opportunity.

That's why you see Freddie covering the cricket ball with both hands before he balls so the batsman can't see the polished side and so which way the ball will swing.

Or so i understand it. I'll stand corrected if not.

Grizz

Far bit of tosh in there Grizz

See: http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=606
 




Isn't it about the treatment of the ball, roughing one side and shining the other?

Sarfraz Nawaz invented it apparently, he passed it on to Imran, who passed it on to Akram and Waqar, and I think one of those guys played at Glamorgan and taught Jones.
 


Phil B

New member
Jul 27, 2004
485
Ifield, Crawley
No, Sarfraz was just a very good exponent of the art - it was around 40 or more years earlier. If not more ....

Basically, conventional swing is achieved by polishing one side of the ball and leaving the other side alone. With the shiny side facing away from a Right handed batsman, the ball should swing away from him i.e. towards the slip cordon - hence outswing. (simply facing the ball the other way, you get inswing).

Reverse swing normally occurs later in the innings, when the unpolished and untouched side becomes roughened by the pitch, the outfield, and due to lack of being polished basically...
Then the conditions above go out of the window and the ball does the opposite - the outswinger now ducks in and vice versa.

At least, that's what you are taught. But a players bowling action has much to do with it. Hoggard was getting the ball to boomerang on Sunday while Freddie was getting mostly seam movement.
 






seagull over sevenoaks

Active member
Jul 14, 2003
398
Its all about aerodynamics

conventional swing occurs as the shiny side move through the air quicker than the rough side. So will swing away from the side with shine. Ie if you want the ball to swing to the slips (to a right hander) the shine would be on the right hand side of the ball.

Reverse swings happens in the main because in keeping the ball shiny, sweat and spit are added to the shiny side making it heavier, tiny pieces of the balls cover are scratched out of the ball on the rough side (by the pitch not the players) and this makes the rough side lighter. The ball reverses as the lighter side goes through the air quicker than the heavier (shiny) side.

This generally only happens above about 85mph though...
 


Brighton TID

New member
Jul 24, 2005
1,741
Horsham
Good work folks. Now I'm even more confused.

Anyone know what a flipper is then?
 


Bob!

Coffee Buyer
Jul 5, 2003
11,484
Brighton TID said:
Good work folks. Now I'm even more confused.

Anyone know what a flipper is then?

I know that!!

It's a dolphin :(
 




Bob!

Coffee Buyer
Jul 5, 2003
11,484
brightonfan_86 said:
One part of the ball is rough, and the other side is shiny, The England bowlers are genius at making the ball reverse swing, most of the time you can see Michael Vaughan giving the ball a bit of spit shine.

Has it got anything to do with the dirt in Mike Atherton's pocket?
 




Gazwag

5 millionth post poster
Mar 4, 2004
30,541
Bexhill-on-Sea
Reverse swing
Normal swing occurs mostly when the ball is fairly new. As it wears more, the aerodynamics of the asymmetry change and it is more difficult to extract a large amount of swing.

When the ball becomes very old—around 40 or more overs old (although Andrew Flintoff and Simon Jones have produced reverse swing in balls as few as 15 overs old [1]) —it can begin to swing towards the polished side rather than the rough side. This is known as reverse swing. In essence, both sides have turbulent flow, but here the seam causes the airflow to separate earlier on one side. The result is always a swing to the side with the later separation, so the swing is away from the seam. See External Links In the sport of cricket an over is a series of six consecutive balls bowled by a single bowler. ... Andrew Flintoff (born December 6, 1977, Preston, Lancashire) is an English cricketer and one of the best all-round cricketers in the world. ... Simon Jones may refer to: Simon Jones, British actor; Simon Jones, Welsh cricketer, who plays for England; Simon Jones, English Writer/Blogger/Photographer, Author of Meanwhile; Simon Jones, British musician. ...

Reverse swing is difficult to achieve consistently, as it relies on uneven wear of the ball, tends to occur mostly in hot, dry weather conditions, and requires bowling at high speed. Normal swing can be achieved at relatively moderate bowling speeds, but only the fastest bowlers can regularly produce reverse swing.

Reverse swing tends to be stronger than normal swing, and to occur late in the ball's trajectory. This gives it a very different character to normal swing, and because batsmen experience it less often they generally find it much more difficult to defend against. It is also possible for a ball to swing normally in its early flight, and then to reverse as it approaches the batsman, giving its trajectory an S-shape through the air.

Notable practitioners of reverse swing have mostly been Pakistani fast bowlers. Sarfaraz Nawaz and Imran Khan are often credited as the first bowlers to produce reverse swing, and they have been followed by bowlers such as Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Shoaib Akhtar, Darren Gough, Andrew Flintoff and Simon Jones. A big, burly Punjabi, Sarfraz formed a potent partnership with Imran Khan, and was one of the pioneers of reverse-swing. ... Imran Khan (Mohammad Imran Khan Niazi; born November 25, 1952), was a Pakistani cricketer (1971–1992) and captain of the Pakistani cricket team. ... For more coverage of cricket, go to the Cricket portal. ... For more coverage of cricket, go to the Cricket portal. ... [[Pindi Express. ... Darren Gough (born September 18, 1970, Monk Bretton, Barnsley, Yorkshire) is an English cricketer. ... Andrew Flintoff (born December 6, 1977, Preston, Lancashire) is an English cricketer and one of the best all-round cricketers in the world. ... Simon Jones may refer to: Simon Jones, British actor; Simon Jones, Welsh cricketer, who plays for England; Simon Jones, English Writer/Blogger/Photographer, Author of Meanwhile; Simon Jones, British musician. ...

:thumbsup:
 


Brighton TID

New member
Jul 24, 2005
1,741
Horsham
gazwag said:
Reverse swing
Normal swing occurs mostly when the ball is fairly new. As it wears more, the aerodynamics of the asymmetry change and it is more difficult to extract a large amount of swing.

When the ball becomes very old—around 40 or more overs old (although Andrew Flintoff and Simon Jones have produced reverse swing in balls as few as 15 overs old [1]) —it can begin to swing towards the polished side rather than the rough side. This is known as reverse swing. In essence, both sides have turbulent flow, but here the seam causes the airflow to separate earlier on one side. The result is always a swing to the side with the later separation, so the swing is away from the seam. See External Links In the sport of cricket an over is a series of six consecutive balls bowled by a single bowler. ... Andrew Flintoff (born December 6, 1977, Preston, Lancashire) is an English cricketer and one of the best all-round cricketers in the world. ... Simon Jones may refer to: Simon Jones, British actor; Simon Jones, Welsh cricketer, who plays for England; Simon Jones, English Writer/Blogger/Photographer, Author of Meanwhile; Simon Jones, British musician. ...

Reverse swing is difficult to achieve consistently, as it relies on uneven wear of the ball, tends to occur mostly in hot, dry weather conditions, and requires bowling at high speed. Normal swing can be achieved at relatively moderate bowling speeds, but only the fastest bowlers can regularly produce reverse swing.

Reverse swing tends to be stronger than normal swing, and to occur late in the ball's trajectory. This gives it a very different character to normal swing, and because batsmen experience it less often they generally find it much more difficult to defend against. It is also possible for a ball to swing normally in its early flight, and then to reverse as it approaches the batsman, giving its trajectory an S-shape through the air.

Notable practitioners of reverse swing have mostly been Pakistani fast bowlers. Sarfaraz Nawaz and Imran Khan are often credited as the first bowlers to produce reverse swing, and they have been followed by bowlers such as Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Shoaib Akhtar, Darren Gough, Andrew Flintoff and Simon Jones. A big, burly Punjabi, Sarfraz formed a potent partnership with Imran Khan, and was one of the pioneers of reverse-swing. ... Imran Khan (Mohammad Imran Khan Niazi; born November 25, 1952), was a Pakistani cricketer (1971–1992) and captain of the Pakistani cricket team. ... For more coverage of cricket, go to the Cricket portal. ... For more coverage of cricket, go to the Cricket portal. ... [[Pindi Express. ... Darren Gough (born September 18, 1970, Monk Bretton, Barnsley, Yorkshire) is an English cricketer. ... Andrew Flintoff (born December 6, 1977, Preston, Lancashire) is an English cricketer and one of the best all-round cricketers in the world. ... Simon Jones may refer to: Simon Jones, British actor; Simon Jones, Welsh cricketer, who plays for England; Simon Jones, English Writer/Blogger/Photographer, Author of Meanwhile; Simon Jones, British musician. ...

:thumbsup:



Thanks gazwag. Thanks for your very full and detailed answer, I appreciate it.

But googlys? What the sweet mother of jesus are they?!?!?

Are the googlys where the ball should be rubbed in order to achieve the 'S' shape profile throught the air?
 




I have to say I thought Sarfraz was the pioneer and would be interested to hear from Phil B who is was if not him.
 


Brixtaan

New member
Jul 7, 2003
5,030
Border country.East Preston.
I love cricket and i'm a good bowler, but i didn't know how to reverse swing until this thread.Cheers.
 


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