Vatican Requests 1,500-Year-Old Bible Held In Turkey

[Bold Seagull]

Your nations leaders through it's royal families and governments have been repsonsible for more destruction of peoples lives and cultures than almost any other infleunce in history.

Where's your indignation at that? Or are you a moaning sanctimonious hypocrite?

So your only counter point is to suggest other governments and leaders are as responsible as the church, which is after all meant to be holy!? So rather than any attempt to defend the institutionally corrupt church, you simply fall back on they are no worse than governments or royal families!? That is brilliant. Thank you. My indignation now only extends to your faith in something that you acknowledge to be just as bad as the secular world!

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The most moronic thing about this...

People who say the RC are responsible for the AIDs epidemic. When in fact the majority of Africans arent Catholic (meaning they'd never listen to the Pope) and secondly they have no statistical data to prove what sections of the communities have the higher incidence of AIDs.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

So your only counter point is to suggest other governments and leaders are as responsible as the church, which is after all meant to be holy!? So rather than any attempt to defend the institutionally corrupt church, you simply fall back on they are no worse than governments or royal families!? That is brilliant. Thank you. My indignation now only extends to your faith in something that you acknowledge to be just as bad as the secular world!

You're none to quick on the uptake.

All humans are the same. Only an idiot would surely make some assumption that one group of people is going to be vastly different to the next.

Why would a group of religious people be any different to a secular group of people? They are all the same genetically.

 

[Triggaaar]

JUST A THOUGHT HOW MANY HAVE DIED BECAUSE OF CONTRACEPTION GETTING THE THUMBS DOWN BY ROME?
Plenty born into short term lives due to this doctrine,above 6 million yet

None is the answer.

Fact is the church teaches celibacy and monogamy before it mentions anything about condoms.

No they don't. They preach (not teach) about celibacy and monogamy, but don't teach about condoms.

If you practice those two things you will NOT catch AIDs.

Obviously WRONG, as young children can get aids.

If you're cheating on your partner or shagging about with randons you're not following the churches teachings anyway, so why them saying don't use condoms would mean anything to people not following their teachings anyway bemuses me.

Because even the preachers don't follow their own teachings. Priests will ask for forgiveness for their sins, as nearly all people sin. Priests know that their congregation sin, so they should prepare them in case they do - like a good parent would.

 

[Triggaaar]

Genuine question:

What percentage of priests do you think "bugger" children? More than 0.05%?

A fair question. What's more disturbing though, is the cover up and the fact that those, still alive today, are not doing time for perverting the cause of justice/harbouring criminals.

EDIT - I see that's been fully discussed already

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

No they don't. They preach (not teach) about celibacy and monogamy, but don't teach about condoms.

Really?

The South African ArchBishop doesn't. In fact he openly says if you're going to be unfaithful, use a condom.

People like to overlook this kind of information because it's not about people dying of AID's it's about their own bigoted biases.

Obviously WRONG, as young children can get aids.

I fail to see the relevance? Anyone can catch AIDs technically.

Because even the preachers don't follow their own teachings. Priests will ask for forgiveness for their sins, as nearly all people sin. Priests know that their congregation sin, so they should prepare them in case they do - like a good parent would.

They merely give guide lines. How people lead their lives is ultimately up to themselves.

It's like blaming your goverment for all the teenage pregnancies, people getting murdered, bashed robbed and so on.

Is it the governments fault? Or just stupid people doing stupid things because people are quite often, stupid.

 

[Triggaaar]

Clearly I guess you are in a position of such intellectual power that you can flippantly just dismiss the faith of people who choose to live their lives according to those beliefs. I dont suggest for a minute they are right or wrong but I do feel uncomfortable with the very modern-day line of thought that as the enlightened intellectuals of our race, we can now pass judgement on people who have strong faith or a particular set of rules that they follow.

Am I reading this right - you feel uncomfortable that atheists judge those who have strong faith? Pot kettle.

The whole Catholic priest = paedophile line it's just a very common (verging on trendy) throw-away comment. Whenever human beings are in a situation of authority or power it is abused. Bankers, teachers, policeman, priests, vicars - all those 'jobs' will have examples of abuse of power, undermining of trust and those are the stories that will make the headlines and move from exception to FACT very quickly.

But the difference is the cover up. If someone's going to see a doctor do we all say 'be careful, he might kill you', in light of Shipman - no, because it was a crime and he was punished.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You're none to quick on the uptake.

All humans are the same. Only an idiot would surely make some assumption that one group of people is going to be vastly different to the next.

Why would a group of religious people be any different to a secular group of people? They are all the same genetically.

This is priceless. I don't feel I need to comment any further. To be insulted by you, or an attempt at an insult, is actually a very large back handed compliment!

 

[Triggaaar]

Really?

The South African ArchBishop doesn't. In fact he openly says if you're going to be unfaithful, use a condom.

Causing controversy I think. The point is, this should be the teachings of all Priests. Not all sins are equal. Telling a white lie is not as bad as killing someone. Being unfaithful is a sin, but if you ever do sin, don't make it worse than it already is, use a condom. As it is though, they're saying that being unfaithful is a sin, don't make it worse by committing another and using contraception.

People like to overlook this kind of information because it's not about people dying of AID's it's about their own bigoted biases.

What are we overlooking? It's great that some priests will ignore the pope, and will give good advice.

I fail to see the relevance? Anyone can catch AIDs technically.

They merely give guide lines.

They may be guidelines, but many people follow some of them. If the church said to use condoms, more people would, and less people would die. There's really no arguing with that fact.

It's like blaming your goverment for all the teenage pregnancies, people getting murdered, bashed robbed and so on.

We do blame them. It is the goal of a government to reduce crime etc.

 

[magoo]

A Bible holds no value whatsoever no matter how old it is.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

This is priceless. I don't feel I need to comment any further. To be insulted by you, or an attempt at an insult, is actually a very large back handed compliment!

I don't need to insult you.

Your words(or lack there of) do that in volumes.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don't need to insult you.

Your words(or lack there of) do that in volumes.

Please feel free to pray for me!

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Causing controversy I think. The point is, this should be the teachings of all Priests. Not all sins are equal. Telling a white lie is not as bad as killing someone. Being unfaithful is a sin, but if you ever do sin, don't make it worse than it already is, use a condom. As it is though, they're saying that being unfaithful is a sin, don't make it worse by committing another and using contraception.

'

Churches are like any sections of the community, they have many and varied opinions amongst them.

There are in fact many Liberal thinking Cardinals/Priests within the church. Reading threads like this is laughable for the amount of misinformation spouted.

How can you blame a churches position on condoms for being the reason someone who is being unfaithful catches AID's? Their acctions indicate they care little for the churches teachings through their actions anyway. Bottom line is the church hasn't stopped them from wearing a condom, its their own choice to not use one.

What are we overlooking? It's great that some priests will ignore the pope, and will give good advice.

Could be people overlooking the possible scenario where the incidence of AIDs is actually less in the RC African communities when compared to other sectors of the continent? How can one religion be blamed for the issue of AIDs when there's no proof it's their congregation who have the highest incidence of the virus.

They may be guidelines, but many people follow some of them. If the church said to use condoms, more people would, and less people would die. There's really no arguing with that fact.

More people? There's the assumption again that the whole of Africa listens to the Pope, and once again no evidence to show that catholics have a higher incidence of AIDs overall.

What if majority of Africans with AIDs are not Roman Catholics?

The Vaticans words have no relevance or bearing on their lives.

We do blame them. It is the goal of a government to reduce crime etc.

I don't blame them. I blame the morons who cause the grief. It's up to the people in the communities to take some personal responsibility rather than it be up to Governments to fix every social issue.

It's not David Cameron or Tony Blair's fault if some 13 year old girl gets pregnant. It's her and the father's families fault first and foremost.

 

[Hillian1]

Religion is like a PENIS

It is FINE to have one,

It is FINE to be proud of it,

But please don't whip it out and in public and wave it around,

And PLEASE do not try and shove it down mine or my Childrens throats.

 

[Return of the Rev]

'

Churches are like any sections of the community, they have many and varied opinions amongst them.

There are in fact many Liberal thinking Cardinals/Priests within the church. Reading threads like this is laughable for the amount of misinformation spouted.

How can you blame a churches position on condoms for being the reason someone who is being unfaithful catches AID's? Their acctions indicate they care little for the churches teachings through their actions anyway. Bottom line is the church hasn't stopped them from wearing a condom, its their own choice to not use one.



Could be people overlooking the possible scenario where the incidence of AIDs is actually less in the RC African communities when compared to other sectors of the continent? How can one religion be blamed for the issue of AIDs when there's no proof it's their congregation who have the highest incidence of the virus.



More people? There's the assumption again that the whole of Africa listens to the Pope, and once again no evidence to show that catholics have a higher incidence of AIDs overall.

What if majority of Africans with AIDs are not Roman Catholics?

The Vaticans words have no relevance or bearing on their lives.



I don't blame them. I blame the morons who cause the grief. It's up to the people in the communities to take some personal responsibility rather than it be up to Governments to fix every social issue.

It's not David Cameron or Tony Blair's fault if some 13 year old girl gets pregnant. It's her and the father's families fault first and foremost.

Looks like rome is GUILTY!

 

[Triggaaar]

Reading threads like this is laughable for the amount of misinformation spouted.

You're posting it.

How can you blame a churches position on condoms for being the reason someone who is being unfaithful catches AID's? Their acctions indicate they care little for the churches teachings through their actions anyway. Bottom line is the church hasn't stopped them from wearing a condom, its their own choice to not use one.

Firstly, it is not true to suggest that all unfaithful people have no care for the church's teachings. Secondly, it's not about whether the church follows their flock into the bedroom to stop them using condoms - the Church says not to use condoms, and because of that, less people use them. If the Church changed its stance, less people would die. And while being unfaithful is bad, it doesn't deserve a death sentence. But more than that, the unfaithful person then passes AIDs to their partner.

More people? There's the assumption again that the whole of Africa listens to the Pope, and once again no evidence to show that catholics have a higher incidence of AIDs overall.

What if majority of Africans with AIDs are not Roman Catholics?

The evidence is there, but I haven't got time to look it up.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Looks like rome is GUILTY!

So no evidence whatsover.

Thought as much.

 

[magoo]

The most moronic thing about this...

People who say the RC are responsible for the AIDs epidemic. When in fact the majority of Africans arent Catholic (meaning they'd never listen to the Pope) and secondly they have no statistical data to prove what sections of the communities have the higher incidence of AIDs.

Of course, everyone knows that as there is only one God, He is responsile for giving innocent new born babies AIDS.

 

[00snook]

Interesting debate, as ones about religion always are.

Is a totally mute point tho, as if God wants the Vatican to have this bible they will get it, as he is in charge and works in mysterious ways and all that jazz. After all the pope is his voice on earth, and they talk regularly.

Or if he wants them to have it and they don't get it he might go all Old Testament on our arses and rain down fiery hell and damnation.

Or the whole thing could be made up, the book is worthless and we should just get on with trying to live good lives in the precious little time we have on an amazingly beautiful planet, that's one of billions of planets in an infinite universe.

 

[Hillian1]

Interesting debate, as ones about religion always are.

Is a totally mute point tho, as if God wants the Vatican to have this bible they will get it, as he is in charge and works in mysterious ways and all that jazz. After all the pope is his voice on earth, and they talk regularly.

Or if he wants them to have it and they don't get it he might go all Old Testament on our arses and rain down fiery hell and damnation.

Or the whole thing could be made up, the book is worthless and we should just get on with trying to live good lives in the precious little time we have on an amazingly beautiful planet, that's one of billions of planets in an infinite universe.

Very, very well put.