Up close and intimate with convertible seating/terracing

[Herr Tubthumper]

I know this is an old arguement and has been discussed to death BUT I had the good fortune to have a close look at the terrace at Hamburg's ground this week. It's simplicity just frustrated me that English football cannot do the same.

It is a genius piece of engineering. Every other step in the terrace is aluminium and on a big hinge. When the club need to convert it to an all-seater stand the aluminium step simply gets lifted up and back onto the step above. Under and attached to the inside of the step is a comfy seat...the back rest is sprung and flips up. It takes as long as it took you to read this to convert one row from one to the other. The stand itself does not differ in construction to a regular one either. A common arguement I have heard in England is that convertible stands are impractical....having seen Hamburg's terrace I cannot see any basis for this idea.

Unless things have changed my understanding is that all-seating isnt law, simply a Taylor report recommendation/guideline which the football authorities use for licensing reasons. If someone had the will and the balls to challenge it we could all have terracing again. Everyone in England (including Martin Perry) seems to shy away from this challenge though.

As I say, aplogies for dragging up an old arguement but when you have seen it in action you just wonder why oh why cant we have it as well.

 

[Gully]

Fair comment, the Germans have built some of the most stunning football stadia over the past 10-15 years, many of them incorporate terraces just as you describe. I can't see a logical reason why we shouldn't do exactly the same in the UK, maybe it is time for someone to challenge the ruling...northstand terrace at Falmer, anyone?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,2142709,00.html

There was a very good article in the Observer last week about terracing. If you have ten minutes to spare, then I would recommend reading it.

The Hillsbrough memorial thing (not sure of their actual name) would vehemently oppose any change to the law, stating it would be a step backwards. I can't see the problem if there are adequate escape routes and numbers are limited...

I am pretty sure that all-seaters are only compulsory in the top two divisions.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Obviously what happened at Hillsborough was terrible but it wasnt down to terracing per se.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Obviously what happened at Hillsborough was terrible but it wasnt down to terracing per se.

I quite agree. I would imagine it is heart ruling head (without wanting to sound dismissive of them).

 

[HAMPSHIRE DAVE]

They had trouble at German grounds in the 70's like in England but it was never as bad.
The people who run football in German worked with fans,police etc to sort things out.
The people who run the game in this country never have and never will give a toss about the fans.
It's only because they were forced to improve stadiums that we now have some of the best in Europe.
HAMPSHIRE DAVE

 

[London Calling]

Germany including the Allianz stadium and Dortmunds now possess some of the very best stdiums in the world. FIFA give them the highest rankings. I studied Bayern Munich's Allianz stadium for the people handing the Olympic legacy. It is absolutely beautiful. Until recently Dortmund recorded the highest total attendance in a season of any club in the world, all in safety and with standing. They even stand at international matches but in the Chump Cup. It is now considered to have the best atmosphere of all major sides in Europe. And of course with terracing the prices of tickets are cheaper.

More please sir!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Does anyone know the official line from the club on this? I'm not for one minute thinking they will push for terracing but I'd be interested to hear their, probably trite, reasons for not wanting it.

 

[Mr C]

It won't happen. Hysteria will prevail over common sense.

 

[The Large One]

Does anyone know the official line from the club on this? I'm not for one minute thinking they will push for terracing but I'd be interested to hear their, probably trite, reasons for not wanting it.

The official line is that the club has to abide by the laws of this country, or they won't get a licence to operate the stadium.

Privately, and I could be wrong on this, I think Dick is quite taken with the idea of having terraces.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But, as I pointed out it is not a law. This was reiterated in The Guardian last week...see quote below. The regulations used for football licensing are set by the relevant Government minister. They can be challenged, and the Guardian also alluded to the fact that Gerry Sutcliffe, the Sports Minister, is about to enter into discussions to reintroduce terracing. If Dick is 'quite taken by the idea of terracing' then he should speak out and challenge the Sports Minister.

"The current ban on standing in the top two divisions, a result of the Hillsborough disaster, could be reversed without legislation, as the Football Spectators Act vested in the relevant minister the power to set the regulations for grounds."

 

[Dover]

I for one would love terracing, and so would Krispies. I also suspect so would most of H Block, but, and this is the big but. I just want the stadium to be built, and no one, and I do mean no one to even utter one word against it being built.

 

[Kukev31]

I think there is a strong chance that standing could be brought back to the top two divisions. It just needs a lot of pushing now, fans ned to do more, rather than just dismiss it as something that isn't going to happen. Click the link in my signature and see what is being done, and what you can do

 

[1959]

Bring them back. All-seater stadia are dreadful, atmosphere-free zones.
It would be BRILLIANT if Falmer blazed a trail with this.
German grounds are brilliant; clean, safe, stylish, affordable, friendly and cool. They even have men with rucksacks filled with beer going around and filling your glass on the spot. And yes, when I said glass, I meant glass, or even YOUR OWN pewter or stone tankard!

 

[brighton2win]

have those of you with knowledge and the ability to form a good argument written to the club about this matter ?

 

[brighton2win]

having said that i suppose its the FA that needs to be adressed

 

[attila]

Apart from the grotesque bad taste shown by a visit to the HSV hellhole in question (!) I agree with every word and have raised the issue many times with Dick and Martin: up until now in fairly jocular fashion because a) we needed to get Falmer first before starting a campaign for terraces and b) under Bliar it didn't look remotely likely that the political will was there to change the status quo. Things look rather different now,and as part of the consultation process we have been promised for the new stadium (cf my question at the fans' forum) I think it is something we can certainly bring to the fore if the government moves the goalposts, as it were. If this happens when Falmer is still in
the development stage rather than actually being built, I think we can certainly bring up the issue!!

My impression is that Dick is certainly open to the idea, Martin Perry opposed, and I know for a fact that chief security officer Richard Hebbard has kittens if you even mention it, because I have done so several times in his presence. The fact that nearly every other country in Europe has terraces doesn't cut any ice at all.

We'll see....

 

[zego]

have those of you with knowledge and the ability to form a good argument written to the club about this matter ?

Why not just "Ask the Club ... ..."?

 

[brighton2win]

you would think they didn't want their fans to get the best matchday experience.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

"A report commissioned by Trafford Borough Council examined the safety of supporters standing in seated areas at Old Trafford at different times. It concluded, not surprisingly, that the most dangerous time is at moments of excitement, such as when a goal is scored. The next most dangerous time is when fans are leaving the stadium, and the least dangerous is passive standing during normal play. It is only during the latter, least dangerous time that attempts are made to force supporters to sit down".


Hmmmm...