Totting up ban

[BensGrandad]

Been having a discussion with 1 of my sons as this affects another one. If a person is banned for having 12 points for speeding or whatever when the ban finishes I maintain that the license isnt clean but those points cannot be taken into account a 2nd time. Youingest son says that after the ban another speeding takes you above 12 points again so you are automatically banned again but I cant see that. Who is correct?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Depends on the timing - the points associated with each offence last 3 years, so if the first offence was 2yrs 9mths ago, 2nd 2 yrs, 3rd 1yr, the 4th offence could get you banned for 3 months and at the end of the ban still have 9 points 'active' on your licence - so i think your son is right

 

[BensGrandad]

Depends on the timing - the points associates with each offence last 3 years, so if the first offence was 2yrs 9mths ago, 2nd 2 yrs, 3rd 1yr, the 4th offence could get you banned for 3 months and at the end of the ban still have 9 points 'active' on your licence - so i think your son is right

Using your example how can a 4th offense also take into account the 2nd and 3rd for which you have been punished originally and the received a ban. On that assumption if you committed a speeding offense once a year you would spend 3 months banned each year for ever. This seems wrong to me.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I suppose, controversially, you could try not speeding so regularly. Or at least not getting caught

 

[NMH]

I suppose, controversially, you could try not speeding so regularly. Or at least not getting caught

Are you prone to also occasionally say "allo allo allo, what seems to be going on 'ere then?"

 

[tedebear]

Been having a discussion with 1 of my sons as this affects another one. If a person is banned for having 12 points for speeding or whatever when the ban finishes I maintain that the license isnt clean but those points cannot be taken into account a 2nd time. Youingest son says that after the ban another speeding takes you above 12 points again so you are automatically banned again but I cant see that. Who is correct?

Depends on the date of the first offence.

 

[happypig]

For the purposes of totting,once a disqualification is imposed, then points will stay on a license but will not count towards another totting disqualification. However, the fact that you've been disqualified for totting may well affect any further penalties imposed by a court.

 

[surrey jim]

Just because you have 12 points doesn't mean you will get an automatic ban, it is up to the magistrate. Saw in week a motorist amassed 39 without a ban

BBC News - Swindon driver with 39 penalty points still on road

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Endorsements and penalty points : Directgov - Motoring

 

[BensGrandad]

Son spoke to his mate who was in traffic in Essex before transferring to Met and he said 12 points = 3 month ban, the oldest is then removed leaving 9 points, on next conviction it is a 6 month ban, the oldest is then removed again leaving 9 points and on next conviction the ban is 12 months. The same happens again oldest is removed irrespective of dates and on the next conviction it is 5 yr ban and if it happens again the next is revokation of licence.

 

[tedebear]

Interesting that you find yourselves in a need to discuss this situation?

Like Edna says, there is a lesson in this somewhere...the not so clever may not spot it.

 

[happypig]

Son spoke to his mate who was in traffic in Essex before transferring to Met and he said 12 points = 3 month ban, the oldest is then removed leaving 9 points, on next conviction it is a 6 month ban, the oldest is then removed again leaving 9 points and on next conviction the ban is 12 months. The same happens again oldest is removed irrespective of dates and on the next conviction it is 5 yr ban and if it happens again the next is revokation of licence.

Son's mate is wrong (not unusual for police not to know the workings of the system, thier responsibility ends with putting people into court).

From the government site :Driving disqualifications : Directgov - Motoring

Disqualification under the ‘totting-up’ system

If you build up 12 or more penalty points within a period of three years, you’ll be liable to be disqualified under the 'totting-up' system.

Generally, you can be disqualified from driving for:
six months if you get 12 penalty points or more within three years
12 months if you get a second disqualification within three years
two years if you get a third disqualification

Once the period of disqualification ends, the points are "spent" for the purposes of totting and you effectively start with a clean sheet.

 

[BensGrandad]

Interesting that you find yourselves in a need to discuss this situation?

Like Edna says, there is a lesson in this somewhere...the not so clever may not spot it.

How many people can put their hand up and say honestly that they never speed, the cameras or mobile traps get some but not all.

My 3 sons all drive for a living and each does between 1500 and 2000 miles a weeks so the chances of them going through a speed trap are greater than mine who does about 250 - 300 miles a week unless there is an away game.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Do they bollocks, drive 2000 miles a week.

100,000 a year. Itchy chin.

 

[adammicheal]

Do they bollocks, drive 2000 miles a week.

100,000 a year. Itchy chin.

Not really itchy chin

Including travelling to and from work, and driving for a living minumum 65k a year no problem

 

[Gazwag]

My 3 sons all drive for a living and each does between 1500 and 2000 miles a weeks

If they work 6 days a week, thats 333 miles a day, say 6 hours driving a day that's an average speed of 55 miles an hour for every mile. No wonder they have points trouble

 

[BensGrandad]

Most days they drive 3-400 miles x 5 is 1500 to 2000 a week. None of them ever do less than 250 on an easy day. Not sure of the exact laws but I think they are allowed to drive 9 hrs a day if using a lorry or more if driving a van, possibly 48 hrs a week not sure or possibly 90 hrs a fortnight.. They definitely drive a lot longer than 6 hrs a day.

I would think most lorry drivers doing general haulage would do this kind of mileage.

 

[Cian]

Do they bollocks, drive 2000 miles a week.

100,000 a year. Itchy chin.

Back in the boom I was doing very close to that in a far FAR smaller country (with bog all motorway network as 85% of that opened in 2009/10), probably 1,800 miles a week. In a car, with often a few hours actual work thrown in between the driving to it!

I'm down to a bit under 1,000 now, on average - this week is going to be 3+ but there's lots of 200s or so. I also only have 2 points (would be 3 in the UK) which expire in about two weeks.

I miss that amount of overtime

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Interesting debate - presumably these people rely on driving for their living so losing their licence for repeated speeding offences would put their livelyhood at risk?

Secondly, these endorsements / bans may only reflect those occasions on which they were caught speeding, presumably they have a tendency to speed at other times?

Thirdly, the mileages incurred each year suggest they ought to be 'professional drivers' and if so I wonder what, if any, ongoing training they receive or standards they are expected to maintain by their employer? Most responsible haulage companies have periodic re-assessments against strict standards and low tolerance of serial offenders.

I recall a motoring journalist recently answering a question from a punter asking if getting caught by the speed cameras 3 or 4 times in one short-ish journey (eg on the M25) would then lose your licence totting these up as multiple speeding offences. The reply agreed this is quite possible but the enforcing authority may use discretion to regard these as one offence. I guess there would be less discretion where the speed is way in excess of the limit and whether there are any previous endorsements / bans for speeding or similar.

I suggest the moral of the story is don't speed. Quite apart from the dangers of excess speed, the cost of spiralling motoring insurance premiums for anyone with a history of endorsements / bans could prove to be mega-expensive.

 

[Muzzy]

I drive coaches for my living and would think that my annual mileage has got to be around 75k easily. With the amount of distance involved and not knowing where all the speed cameras are i'm a bit surprised I still have a clean licence

Also I will make a point of interest that I am certain not everyone on here will know...

If you get caught/convicted of any driving offence that puts points on your licence you MUST inform your insurance company... if you don't and then make a claim they will not pay out.. be warned people