Tory! Tory! Tory!

[Barrel of Fun]

Did anyone watch this last night? Quite late, so I am a little weary from it, but it was very interesting.
Lots of interesting points about privatisation etc.

Poll tax riots and the mining strikes. Whatever happened to Scargill?

 

[n1 gull]

Yes I watched it. I still hate Thatcher, although I'm glad the Unions have less power now.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Yes I watched it. I still hate Thatcher, although I'm glad the Unions have less power now.

She did us a favour in that respect. They were far too powerful and needed to be put in their place.

As you say, I still don't like her. Not noble or gracious enough to admit when she was wrong and so on.

 

[bigc]

To be fair, Wilson tried to bring in similar union legislation in the late 1960s but was defeated by Labour MPs.

The way she crushed institutions like the GLC showed just how little respect for democracy she had.

 

[Dandyman]

I'm always confused by the line of argument, above. People criticise Thatcher but then applaud her for destroying one of the few organs capable of defending working people against her.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I think she had some good points and bad points. Privatisation of BT etc. were inspired choices, yet others failed to live up to those standards. I really feel that she set Britain on the road to where we are today, despite Britain suffering in the Global recession. Then things such as Poll tax and perhaps the Falkland Islands, I would hold against her.

Everyone has their merits and demerits.

 

[Stinky Kat]

she sold off the family silver, her cronies got rich, the woman is evil, evil, evil

 

[zefarelly]

she sold off the family silver, her cronies got rich, the woman is evil, evil, evil

well said

I still can't come to terms with the fact she sold off billions of pounds worth of National assetts and got away with it
now we're complaining about utilitiy bill prices and land/property costs because its all in her supporters private hands.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

well said

I still can't come to terms with the fact she sold off billions of pounds worth of National assetts and got away with it
now we're complaining about utilitiy bill prices and land/property costs because its all in her supporters private hands.

It worked for BT. They needed £2bn worth of investment to bring it up to scratch and there is no way we could have afforded that in the early 80s. However, it didn't work for all of them.

However, you look at how much investment is needed in something like our waterworks. Could we have done that ourselves as a nation?

We are richer as a nation. We own shares, people own houses when they never dreamed it possible.

There are many plus sides to her regime, but also many negatives.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

It's strange that you mention waterworks as the main reason that we have a drought order is that no money is invested in managing the rain that we do get, fixing leaks or upgrading the Victorian water system. I wonder why no money is invested. Bonuses for shareholders and bosses maybe? Why were some of the privatised British Rail firms brought back under Government control because they hadnt invested in their services? The same reason.

As you say good and bad points and it depends where you are/were in the scheme of things what your opinion is. Mine is that she and and tosspot cabinets shit on many, many people in this country and we are still cleaning up the mess now. My only regret is that she is so far into Alzheimers that she doesnt realise what she done and it doesnt keep her awake at night.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

she sold off the family silver, her cronies got rich, the woman is evil, evil, evil

And Gordon Brown hasnt sold off any of our gold reserves at a knockdown price either?

 

[London Irish]

She did us a favour in that respect. They were far too powerful and needed to be put in their place.

That's a Daily Maily myth - the biggest of the big lies fed to us by our anti-union national newspapers.

Unions remain strong in the Scandinavian countries and Germany yet these countries have an excellent standard of living.

 

[London Irish]

It worked for BT. They needed £2bn worth of investment to bring it up to scratch and there is no way we could have afforded that in the early 80s. However, it didn't work for all of them.

However, you look at how much investment is needed in something like our waterworks. Could we have done that ourselves as a nation?

We are richer as a nation. We own shares, people own houses when they never dreamed it possible.

The necessary capital could have been raised in many ways, in the public sphere through less tax cuts for the rich, or in the private sphere through the bond markets.

The share-owning democracy remains another daily mail myth. We do not have a nation where many people trade shares, the people that bought them in privatisation either got rid of them quickly much like you would if when you get a windfall from a building society demutualisation or retained a tiny amount of shares that are insignificant for the economy. The pattern of share ownership remains relatively unchanged since the 1980s, still dominated by the large financial institutions.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

That's a Daily Maily myth - the biggest of the big lies fed to us by our anti-union national newspapers.

Unions remain strong in the Scandinavian countries and Germany yet these countries have an excellent standard of living.

Germany and Scandanavia are completely different countries/regions (obviously). Please don't link my viewpoint with the Daily Mail, I will have nothing to do with them!

They wielded far too much power and wasn't it 80% of the miners actually voted to carry on working? They ran the show and forced the hand of two previous governments. It was time to put a stop to that.

Was it not Tony Blair that named the Firefighters strike leaders as Scargillite?

 

[zefarelly]

the plus sides mentioned only really apply to the middle class and upwards, and particularly benefitted those with money already

most of those with properties and material assets also have large debts . . .which make more people money !

as LI says others get it right . . .largely by insisting the people pay a fair sharte in the countries upkeep by paying taxes . . .and not wasting it all on stupid egotistical bettles alongside the septics in oil rich countries

 

[Barrel of Fun]

The necessary capital could have been raised in many ways, in the public sphere through less tax cuts for the rich, or in the private sphere through the bond markets.

The share-owning democracy remains another daily mail myth. We do not have a nation where many people trade shares, the people that bought them in privatisation either got rid of them quickly much like you would if when you get a windfall from a building society demutualisation or retained a tiny amount of shares that are insignificant for the economy. The pattern of share ownership remains relatively unchanged since the 1980s, still dominated by the large financial institutions.

The share ownership was a direct quote from Edwina Currie, who I assume knew a thing or two about it.

I really doub tthat the capital could have been raised to fund £2bn worth of improvements, just for the telephone! That is a huge amount of money to invest for no profit with the other sectors of the British industry groaning under the strain of pressure.

Council house sell offs put money back into peoples pockets, people that were destined to pay rent for the whole of their lives. Very much like the shared ownership schemes set up by New Labour.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

If the unions needed 'teaching a lesson' as you put it, did the whole communities of mining towns and villages as well? The shops, pubs, schools, etc that relied on the pits? Did they have too much power as well?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

And Gordon Brown hasnt sold off any of our gold reserves at a knockdown price either?

Quite right. As LI says, there are many more alternatives to selling off something, so perhaps GB should have taken an alternative route. Raising various taxes? Don't be silly, that would lose votes.

 

[Dandyman]

It's strange that you mention waterworks as the main reason that we have a drought order is that no money is invested in managing the rain that we do get, fixing leaks or upgrading the Victorian water system. I wonder why no money is invested. Bonuses for shareholders and bosses maybe? Why were some of the privatised British Rail firms brought back under Government control because they hadnt invested in their services? The same reason.

As you say good and bad points and it depends where you are/were in the scheme of things what your opinion is. Mine is that she and and tosspot cabinets shit on many, many people in this country and we are still cleaning up the mess now. My only regret is that she is so far into Alzheimers that she doesnt realise what she done and it doesnt keep her awake at night.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

It's strange that you mention waterworks as the main reason that we have a drought order is that no money is invested in managing the rain that we do get, fixing leaks or upgrading the Victorian water system. I wonder why no money is invested. Bonuses for shareholders and bosses maybe? Why were some of the privatised British Rail firms brought back under Government control because they hadnt invested in their services? The same reason.

There has been a massive increase in houses in the last 15 years, climate change (due to coal for one ).
I am sure you will find that more has been invested in the waterworks than ever before. There are many factors that have come into play since those days.

Shareholders get bonuses as they invest in the company, money that the company needs to survive.

I remember reading about franchises losing their....franchise in the rail sector, but I am unaware what happened there. I don't know nuffink on that front. One thing is for sure on that front, is that passenger levels are up and there has never been this much sustained investment before. It is going to take time to turn round years of neglect.

If you look at the shortfall in funding for many aspects of modern British life, imagine how much more would be needed if the government had attempted to support everything, instead of selling various sectors off.