This Lord Ashcroft thing.

[Leekbrookgull]

So Labour think it is wrong,well what about the unions. In fact the whole lot of them stink,if they have not got their 'hand in the till' they are to something else.

 

[BensGrandad]

I cannot see what the problem is with him living abroad as a tax exile. Is he any worse than the many who live abroad and still get their pension and heating allownace paid into their account with no hint of ever returning to the UK. OK so he supports the Tory party and wants a better Britain for us so contributed to their funds to help them achieve this but I cant see what the fuss is all about.

 

[warsaw]

You what?

The key point is that if he paid his taxes like the rest of us then he might not have been able to afford to stick £5m to the Tories.

I don't understand this non-dom/ tax exile bollox, I just don't get why any of them are allowed to get away with it and can buy their yachts, while the rest of us have the taxman on our tails and come down on us like a ton of bricks over a tenner

 

[1234andcounting]

So Labour think it is wrong,well what about the unions. In fact the whole lot of them stink,if they have not got their 'hand in the till' they are to something else.

Your insight in to this most complex of matters is wonderful. Now that I have read your post in full, I have a complete understanding, not just of political party funding, but the entire democratic process. Keep up the good work.

 

[BensGrandad]

Why should he pay taxes to the UK when he doesnt live here the required number of days. 1 of my old bosses lived 4 months in the UK, 4 months in Gozo and 4 months in Thurles in Eire and didnt pay tax to any country.

Parliament have just decreed that he hasnt broken any laws and everything is legal and above board.

 

[beorhthelm]

The key point is that if he paid his taxes like the rest of us then he might not have been able to afford to stick £5m to the Tories.

I don't understand this non-dom/ tax exile bollox, I just don't get why any of them are allowed to get away with it and can buy their yachts, while the rest of us have the taxman on our tails and come down on us like a ton of bricks over a tenner

i dont think you grasp how wealthy Ashcroft is. as for the non domiciled thing, its designed for wealthy people who earn their money abroad but chose to live in this country. you see all those wealthy arabs and russians here? non-doms. it might not seem "fair" until you consider if they werent here they wouldnt be spending their money here. they earn abroad because their business is abroad, it would be difficult for the tax man to prove what is earnt where (no jurisdiction) so why bother to try?

as for Ashcroft himself, the problem is he has been so dumb as to be high profile while not paying any tax. I think all Lords must be UK residents (as MPs do) and he could have sorted out an arrangment to pay some tax and it would avoid the issue. what i dont understand is why all the fuss is being made over just him when Labour have 3 or 4 large donors in the same situation. seems rather hypocritical, and they make a fuss it seems because they fear him and his cash. he is driving the modernising, young, centre right in the Tory party, if he wasnt it would be still the old codgers ruling the roost and that would be great for the Labour party.

 

[Padders]

Why should he pay taxes to the UK when he doesnt live here the required number of days. 1 of my old bosses lived 4 months in the UK, 4 months in Gozo and 4 months in Thurles in Eire and didnt pay tax to any country.

Parliament have just decreed that he hasnt broken any laws and everything is legal and above board.

So why should he take part in the political process here if he doesn't want to contribute taxes.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Hasn't Gordon Brown perpetuated this tax loophole throughout his time as Chancellor & Darling's puppet master for the last 12 years?

 

[vegster]

Without getting too complicated... It could be said that he is using his donations to the Tory party in order to " Buy" the political policies which would possibly benefit his own companies. If he was a UK resident tax payer that would not be so bad but to meddle from abroad while effectively dodging his tax responsability is a bit off.

Oh and as a secondary point, Wiliam Hague, shadow foreign secretary and " Sponsor" of his position in the House of Lords believed that Lord Ashcroft WAS paying tax. He went for about 8 years believing his mukker was upfront with him ! he only found out a few months ago....

 

[beorhthelm]

Without getting too complicated... It could be said that he is using his donations to the Tory party in order to " Buy" the political policies which would possibly benefit his own companies.

thats just it, he doesnt have UK companies, if he did they would be taxed and i dont think the non-dom status would hold. all his earnings come from abroad.

 

[vegster]

thats just it, he doesnt have UK companies, if he did they would be taxed and i dont think the non-dom status would hold. all his earnings come from abroad.

But if he is in position of having priveledged knowledge of what the Tory policies will be, he could use that as a competetive advantage for himself or in advising" Friends" who do do business with his companies etc. etc.

 

[GNF on Tour]

Without getting too complicated... It could be said that he is using his donations to the Tory party in order to " Buy" the political policies which would possibly benefit his own companies. If he was a UK resident tax payer that would not be so bad but to meddle from abroad while effectively dodging his tax responsability is a bit off.

Oh and as a secondary point, Wiliam Hague, shadow foreign secretary and " Sponsor" of his position in the House of Lords believed that Lord Ashcroft WAS paying tax. He went for about 8 years believing his mukker was upfront with him ! he only found out a few months ago....

Hague - he is a thick useless shite that boy, I'm stunned how anyone could be even dumber than Cameron!

 

[beorhthelm]

But if he is in position of having priveledged knowledge of what the Tory policies will be, he could use that as a competetive advantage for himself or in advising" Friends" who do do business with his companies etc. etc.

ok, fair enough. so you share the same concerns of Labour donors then?

 

[vegster]

ok, fair enough. so you share the same concerns of Labour donors then?

Are they Non-dom tax exiles then ? have they been covering up or refusing to reveal their tax status for 8 odd years ?.... oh, have they been given seats in The House of Lords ? name them and lets have a look

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Are they Non-dom tax exiles then ? have they been covering up or refusing to reveal their tax status for 8 odd years ?.... oh, have they been given seats in The House of Lords ? name them and lets have a look

Well there's four non-dom financial supporters of the Labour party who incidentally have donated a far greater sum than this chap.

 

[beorhthelm]

Are they Non-dom tax exiles then ? have they been covering up or refusing to reveal their tax status for 8 odd years ?.... oh, have they been given seats in The House of Lords ? name them and lets have a look

Lord Paul, deputy speaker until last autumn, is a labour peer and non-dom, Mittal brothers (or at least one) are large non-dom donators, they're two commonly known ones. this isnt a new thing, its been about since the cash for honors scandal, just the both side thought better than to stir it up, apparently there are dozens of non-doms in the Lords on all sides. now with election on the horizon, Labour has decided to go after Ashcroft, apparently ignoring the corpse in their kitchen.

i help but highlight the irony that this would happen with the old school hereditary peers, who by definition would be domiciled in the country. (not suggesting going back, just amusing)

 

[drew]

thats just it, he doesnt have UK companies, if he did they would be taxed and i dont think the non-dom status would hold. all his earnings come from abroad.

I think you will find you are wrong. The whole point of the Electoral Commission inquiry was to establish whether the donations made by Ashcroft through his company, Bearwood, were legal. Companies can only donate to political parties if they are trading in this country. The fact that the inquiry has taken 14 months to establish this would suggest that it was on very dodgy ground and probably got through only on a technicality.

With regard to the furore over Ashcroft himself, the problem is that, in return for a peerage, he gave an undertaking to Hague that he would change his tax status to a UK resident and therefore pay taxes. This was about 9 years ago however, it has now been revealed that he never did (although he did get the peerage) and that subsequent to that undertaking, he came to an agreement with the Cabinet Office whereby he could be a UK resident but not pay the taxes. He is deputy Chairman of the tory party but neither Cameron, the party leader, nor Hague, who announced the orignal undertaking, were apparently aware of this 'deal'.

So basically, you have a very influential member of the Tory party who has avoided paying tax in this country in contravention of an agreement made 10 years ago. I have heard that the tax lost to the Inland Revenue is somewhere in the region of £100m.

People will draw comparisons to Lord Paul who has donated about £70k to labour but he has never hidden the fact that he is a non dom. However, I would have thought that to be a member of a UK political party or donate you should pay full uk taxes.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think you will find you are wrong. The whole point of the Electoral Commission inquiry was to establish whether the donations made by Ashcroft through his company, Bearwood, were legal. Companies can only donate to political parties if they are trading in this country.

wakey, wakey, the company exists as a vehicle for him to be able to donate. yes, its dodgy, but its not some secret noone didnt know. i read about this years ago. It seems that the "deal" that was agreed was rather loosly worded and no one has follwoed up much until now (it comes up every few or 5 years...).

So basically, you have a very influential member of the Tory party who has avoided paying tax in this country in contravention of an agreement made 10 years ago. I have heard that the tax lost to the Inland Revenue is somewhere in the region of £100m.

methinks the £100m is plucked out of the air, its suspciously round and about 10% of his estimated wealth. And if he has influence on the Tories, what should we make of the potential influence has Lord Paul had on the machinery of govenment and parliament as deputy speaker?

People will draw comparisons to Lord Paul who has donated about £70k to labour but he has never hidden the fact that he is a non dom.

so... it doesnt matter that they are non-domiciled? its only a problem that Ashcroft wasnt completely honest about his status. i see. as for 70k, just suggests Labour is cheaper to win positions with

 

[Bozza]

"This Lord Ashcroft" thing is no different to the "Labour taking a lot of cash from Non Doms too" thing, is it?

• Lakshmi Mittal - £4.125 million in donations to Labour.
• Sir Ronald Cohen - £2.55 million in donations to Labour. Cohen was appointed chair of the Social Investment Taskforce, which was announced by the then Chancellor, Gordon Brown.
• Sir Christopher Ondaatje - £1.7 million in donations to Labour.
• Lord Paul – £69,250 in donations to Labour, including £45,000 to Gordon Brown’s leadership campaign. A close friend of Gordon Brown and appointed to the Privy Council last summer, he has admitted to being ‘non-dom’.
• Sir Gulam Noon - £532,826 in donations to Labour.
• William Bollinger - £510,725 in donations to Labour.
• Mahmoud Khayami - £985,000 in donations to Labour including £5,000 to Hazel Blears’ deputy leadership campaign. He has helped bankroll two flagship schools, one of which Gordon Brown opened, and was personally thanked for a donation by Tony Blair.
• Dr David Potter - £90,000 in a donation to Labour. He has previously delivered a lecture at Downing Street.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Hague - he is a thick useless shite that boy, I'm stunned how anyone could be even dumber than Cameron!

Neither are dumb, are they? They just don't conform to your ideals or beliefs.