[Politics] The NHS and funding

[Durlston]

Sitting in a corridor on a hospital bed, it's hard and creaky, in your pocket is cash you've recently drawn out as it's monthly pay day and you picked up a big win on the football from the bookies, you can feel the lump of cash in your pocket. The staff are busy - but not critically as so that they can make a brief friendly joke towards each other.

You've been admitted suddenly. For hemoptisis. It's frightening - now all that paper in your pocket is useless. We're all patients. Worried that something will or has been found. You look up at the screens. All that matters is time and waiting for scans. You're in good hands. Other patients say hello as if they know you but just a friendly word means more than that pile of cash you've earnt that's mainly put you there. "Slow down" were the words. Well now it doesn't matter. We're all the same and the NHS do a bloody good job.

"You can't take it with you" are the words ringing through your head. Should I have pampered myself by going private? Well, everything may be quicker but that's about it. We are all patients in whatever hospital and there's a feeling of empathy towards others.

I'll wait my turn. It may not feel like it but the staff are working their guts out. Respect and dignity to them all. A charity box that is safely secure as you leave hospital is in view. A couple of twenty pound notes are inserted. Safe in the knowledge that the money is anonymous and not known who donated.

I love the NHS and they're brilliant at what they do.

 

[darkwolf666]

Once the NHS starts charging even a nominal amount for an appointment or treatment, the amount will steadily increase, and eventually, some people will be unable to afford to pay.

The claim that 'the NHS is no longer affordable' is politically-motivated; it's the claim advanced by those who want to dismantle it or privatise it completely. The people who claim 'the NHS is no longer affordable' are invariably the people who are happy to give £ billions given away in tax cuts for those on high salaries, and turn a blind eye to the £ billions lost through tax evasion.

Instead of saying "we can't afford the NHS anymore", we should be saying "we can't afford £ multi-billion tax give-aways and tax fraud anymore."

However, I do think there is a problem with people who end up in hospital as a result of their own stupidity or lifestyle. Doctors already refuse to operate on some people until they quit excessive drinking, give up smoking, or lose weight, and I think that is quite reasonable.

I also think it would be reasonable not to treat the pissed-up idiots who clutter A&E on Friday & Saturday nights.

The problem with your last sentence is where do you stop once you become selective.

Would you treat free of charge...

Sports injuries
Driving injuries
Suicide attempts
Etc...

Being selective is just the thin end of the wedge. We don’t want a system whereby you have to check someone’s wallet to make sure they have the correct insurance or credit cards to treat.

 

[darkwolf666]

Further to this, my wife and I, well my wife, had the pleasure of an all dayer in A&E, at St Richard’s Chichester, followed by a stay on their side ward.

While there it was clear this side ward was largely, probably 7 out of a dozen beds, populated by people with mental health issues. There was nowhere for them to go safely away from A&E, so they were stuck, occupying beds and taking up valuable time and resources - this due to cuts over time to mental health facilities.

Fund things properly and the system would work a lot better.

 

[Da Man Clay]

No.

Succinct and correct answer

 

[portslade seagull]

If you want to pay for treatment join BUPA or the Nuffield they will gladly take your money and you will probably see the same consultant

 

[PeterOut]

If you want to pay for treatment join BUPA or the Nuffield they will gladly take your money and you will probably see the same consultant

You probably will - but only for follow-up care, after the NHS A&E has given the immediate and necessary diagnosis, treatment, drugs etc. BUPA, Nuffield et al do not do A&E. No profit in it for them

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If you want to pay for treatment join BUPA or the Nuffield they will gladly take your money and you will probably see the same consultant

Indeed. And if they **** up, they will hail you a taxi to take you to A&E.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Indeed. And if they **** up, they will hail you a taxi to take you to A&E.

Where after being triaged by a junior Doctor you will end up admitted under the same consultant that you’ve just left.....


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[One Teddy Maybank]

I know it's been discussed elsewhere but this is an NHS Funding thread so...

Charging for NHS missed appointments needs looking at. 17 MILLION a year?! Charge could be nominal but experience in other other areas of society show that consumer behaviour can be changed overnight just by minorly tweaking the system. Hence the massive fall in use of supermarket carrier bags by introduction of a tiddly little charge. Why NOT charge people a semi-nominal fee for missed appointments? Of course there would need to be a list of exceptions but IMHO these could easily be aligned with the list of exceptions on the back of a prescription form.

Bang on.

Missed OP appointments are completely different.


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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Where after being triaged by a junior Doctor you will end up admitted under the same consultant that you’ve just left.....


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Where he can mend for 'free' what he ****ed up for a price.

Incidentally we have private practice nested in the NHS only because Labour feared a medics revolt when they introduced the NHS. I can't see Corbyn making such a mistake in equivalent circumstances.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

doesnt have to make sense to be the reason. NHS IT systems are horribly fragmented, along way from being able to offer access online, if they are even fully digitised (its not just UK actually, IT system in healthcare are sub par). Its different elsewhere, business can make the decision to do so themselves, not behold to one monolithic risk averse authority.

I don’t necessarily agree.
You can get diagnostic images and notes transferred between hospital providers quite easily these days.


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[One Teddy Maybank]

Where he can mend for 'free' what he ****ed up for a price.

Incidentally we have private practice nested in the NHS only because Labour feared a medics revolt when they introduced the NHS. I can't see Corbyn making such a mistake in equivalent circumstances.

No, because if he gets to power and raises taxes they’ll (the consultants) leave or retire.

If their pension pot reaches near to £1million, (Lifetime Allowance) at the moment it’s not in their interest to continue in the NHS.


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[Nottseagull]

And.....end of thread.

'Those who can pay should pay' sounds initially a bit like the old commie dictum of 'from each according to their ability and to each according to their need', except I think the OP is saying 'from each according to their level of culpability, regardless of their ability to pay'. That's what they do in the US, and the poor suffer shockingly. You may think that American Teeth means like Klopp but the average American mouth has far more decay and missing teeth than the average in the UK. And that's just one example.

And then there is the cost of administration, assessing culpability versus ability to pay, collecting the money, taking non-payers to court - it would cost more than it saves.....or you could simply leave the pissed up lad with the glassed face outside on the street if he's forgotten to bring his American Express card.

FFS

This must be the longest political post you've ever made/will make with which I agree with everything you say.

My violent instinct was to announce the thread as a party political broadcast for the new Tory right.

denounce.

 

[bluenitsuj]

No. End of

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No, because if he gets to power and raises taxes they’ll (the consultants) leave or retire.

If their pension pot reaches near to £1million, (Lifetime Allowance) at the moment it’s not in their interest to continue in the NHS.


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My section head (a consultant) 'retired' in the summer when his pension pot exceed the million and whatever it is. But he has signed up again to treat patients and teach students. Because he's a decent bloke, and you only need so much money. He's long since put his four daughters on the property ladder.

The money grabbers can frankly eff off.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Nottseagull;9122840] said: This must be the longest political post you've ever made/will make with which I agree with everything you say. 'unquote'



I'll take that as a challenge. I like a challenge. And I am a windbag. Brace yourself

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

My section head (a consultant) 'retired' in the summer when his pension pot exceed the million and whatever it is. But he has signed up again to treat patients and teach students. Because he's a decent bloke, and you only need so much money. He's long since put his four daughters on the property ladder.

The money grabbers can frankly eff off.

And many will purely to private practice.
And ‘yes’ there are decent individuals too [emoji106]


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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And many will purely to private practice.
And ‘yes’ there are decent individuals too [emoji106]


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I have long felt that those who are put through state (uni) medical school in the UK, a massively subsidised exercise, should be duty bound to work in the NHS. If they want to work privately they should pay to go to private medical school. Or their parents should pay. This is a professional training programme, like being a trainee in the army. You don't go to Sandhurst only to **** off and join ISIS, FFS.

 

[Blue3]

We have the most cost effective health care system which needs urgent protection from the Tories who will sell it off to the highest bidder

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I have long felt that those who are put through state (uni) medical school in the UK, a massively subsidised exercise, should be duty bound to work in the NHS. If they want to work privately they should pay to go to private medical school. Or their parents should pay. This is a professional training programme, like being a trainee in the army. You don't go to Sandhurst only to **** off and join ISIS, FFS.

Agree 100%.



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