Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

The "deficiencies in the evidence" about Sheepcote Valley



The soundbite that seems to be creeping into the media coverage about Falmer is that Ruth Kelly thinks there are "deficiencies in the evidence about Sheepcote Valley".

I've got the letter that Ms Kelly's department sent out to the interested parties earlier this week. Let's have a look at what that letter actually says:-

... The Secretary of State considers that more general information is required on how alternative sites were assessed, but that this should include a particular look at the accessibility of Sheepcote Valley. This latter point is particularly important because the second Inspector's Report (IR2) at IR 10,46 and IR 10.158 indicated deficiencies in the evidence on the accessibility of Sheepcote Valley. We also consider that extending the timetable to 15 February is reasonable to enable your Council (ie LDC) to instruct transport consultants to produce this evidence ...

The references are to two specific paragraphs in Inspector Brier's Report:-

10.46 I have some sympathy with LDC’s submissions regarding the difficulty inherent in
drawing firm conclusions about the impact of a major development such as a stadium
upon the highway network in the absence of a full traffic impact assessment. Indeed, I
can well understand the HA’s reservations about the wisdom of making a comparison
between Falmer and the other locations in the absence of the information that such an
exercise would produce. In cross examination CE/PI’s transport witness, who shared the
Club’s concerns about the effect upon the Woodingdean Crossroads, accepted that it may
not be necessary to access Sheepcote Valley by this route and expressed reservations about
the projected effects on some of other the junctions identified in the Club’s assessment.
However none of this was backed up by any detailed quantitative analysis of the undertaken
by the Club. In the light of this, I am not satisfied that the Club’s assessment has
exaggerated the likely impact of a stadium at Sheepcote Valley. [4.78, 4.81, 6.53, 8.97]


Note - "CE/PI's transport witness" is a reference to the transport consultant employed by the Cook Estates/Pecla Investments, the owners of Toads Hole Valley.

10.158 The foregoing factors, not least the fact that Sheepcote Valley is not in the AONB,
offer persuasive reasons for preferring this location to Falmer. However, accessibility is its
Achilles heel. Despite the relative abundance of bus services serving the area and the
prospect that these may be augmented, capacity is lacking and there is no convenient
railway station. The evidence also points to the likelihood of serious traffic congestion
occurring when a capacity event occurs. It has not been demonstrated how this can be
overcome. For this reason therefore, I am not satisfied that there is a reasonable prospect
that planning permission would be forthcoming.


So what does this mean?

As far as I can see, it means that Inspector Brier was convinced that the transport evidence against Sheepcote Valley was overwhelming, enough to rule it out as an option.

However, one consultant questioned the evidence about the traffic impact of a stadium at Sheepcote Valley on the grounds that the club might have got its predictions wrong about the routes that people might take to travel to matches. Hence the suggestion that the evidence might be "deficient".

What seems to have escaped Ruth Kelly's civil servants is that the consultant mentioned in paragraph 10.46 had been engaged by the promoters of an alternative site, who had a vested interest in rubbishing the expertise of the Club's transport consultant and the City Council's transport consultant, not because of anything they had to say about Sheepcote Valley or Falmer, but because they had concluded that Toads Hole Valley was unsuitable on traffic grounds. Why on earth his opinion should be given any weight at all escapes me completely - particularly since his performance at the Inquiry was, quite frankly, pathetic.

More importantly ... no convincing evidence was produced by Lewes District Council to counter the transport evidence of the Club or the City Council. Para 10.158 of Brier's Report makes this very clear.

None of this seriously questions the quality of the Club's case against Sheepcote Valley. All that LDC are being invited to show now is that serious traffic congestion associated with a stadium at Sheepcote Valley CAN be overcome.

They'll have a hell of a job doing that, in my opinion.
 
















Barrel of Fun

Abort, retry, fail
Is this not a good opportunity to contact an ombudsman, if there is even a slight risk that the opinion of the consultant with the vested interest, leads to the inquiry being reopened?

On a side note, surely Sheepcote would be impossible anyway, due to nesting/migrating birds!
 
Last edited:








eastlondonseagull

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2004
13,385
West Yorkshire
Franks Wild Years said:
LB, as has already been talked about on here, would it be a good idea to get a pro falmer web site blog type thingy going?
Sometimes it would be usefull to have the corect information to hand or be able to point people to where they can get any info ?
Just a thought.

An excellent idea.
 


pasty

A different kind of pasty
Jul 5, 2003
30,833
West, West, West Sussex
Leaving myself open to ridicule here, because I must be honest and say I haven't followed the legal beavering as much as I probably should have , but..........

If Ruth Kelly says something along the lines of "No you can't have a stadium at Falmer, but you can have one at Sheepcote Valley/Toads Hole/Waterhall", what sort of a problem is that going to cause? As long as we get a "Yes you can have a stadium", does it matter where?
 




Thanks for clarifying that Lord B. I think you have demonstrated that even if we do not quite 100% discern the motives for Kelly wanting to revisit the Sheepcote traffic issue, it can do us no harm if she does so. If this becomes the issue that Kelly focuses on, victory is assured for us.
 
Last edited:


Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
London Irish said:
Thanks for clarifying that Lord B. I think you have demonstrated that even if we do not quite 100% discern the motives for Kelly wanting to revisit the Sheepcote traffic issue, it can do us no harm if she does so. If this becomes the issue that Kelly focuses on, victory is assured for us.

I wish I had your confidence LI but LDC are such wriggly little worms that I have this horrible feeling that it could all still mean a brand new full inquiry is asked for.

:down:
 


pasty said:
Leaving myself open to ridicule here, because I must be honest and say I haven't followed the legal beavering as much as I probably should have , but..........

If Ruth Kelly says something along the lines of "No you can't have a stadium at Falmer, but you can have one at Sheepcote Valley/Toads Hole/Waterhall", what sort of a problem is that going to cause? As long as we get a "Yes you can have a stadium", does it matter where?

I think it would matter a lot to the people of East Brighton whose amenity land we would be stealing. It would matter a lot if every second week that side of Brighton was brought to a gridlock standstill.

All along we have been truthfully able to tell the people of Falmer that we could mitigate the impact of the stadium successfully on their lives, I don't believe we could say that with a straight face to our fellow Brightonians.
 
Last edited:




pasty said:
Leaving myself open to ridicule here, because I must be honest and say I haven't followed the legal beavering as much as I probably should have , but..........

If Ruth Kelly says something along the lines of "No you can't have a stadium at Falmer, but you can have one at Sheepcote Valley/Toads Hole/Waterhall", what sort of a problem is that going to cause? As long as we get a "Yes you can have a stadium", does it matter where?
She won't say "You can have a stadium at xxx". She can only say "You can't have one at Falmer. You will have to apply for planning permission somewhere else".

Dont forget ...

It would take a year or so to prepare the full plans, And we haven't begun to negotiate the acquisition of an alternative site. And the City Council are opposed to a stadium at Sheepcote Valley, Toads Hole Valley and Waterhall. As things stand at the moment, there would be a load of preparatory work to do. And it would be unlikely that the Council would give us planning permission.

If they turn us down, we'd have to appeal. And that would mean another Public Inquiry.
 
Last edited:


Lady Bracknell

Handbag at Dawn
Jul 5, 2003
4,514
The Metropolis
LDC's keenness to promote Sheepcote does, in fact, mean they are perfectly happy to crap on the Falmer villagers they've assured everyone they are attempting to "protect" from the nasty stadium and consequent hordes of duck stoning supporters.

Because there's only one logical route to Sheepcote for anyone travelling from east or west on the A27. And that's the route through Falmer that is...
 
Last edited:


pasty

A different kind of pasty
Jul 5, 2003
30,833
West, West, West Sussex
Lord Bracknell said:
She won't say "You can have a stadium at xxx". She can only say "You can't have one at Falmer. You will have to apply for planning permission somewhere else".

Dont forget ...

It would take a year or so to prepare the full plans, And we haven't begun to negotiate the acquisition of an alternative site. And the City Council are opposed to a stadium at Sheepcote Valley, Toads Hole Valley and Waterhall. As things stand at the moment, there would be a load of preparatory work to do. And it would be unlikely that the Council would give us planning permission.

If they turn us down, we'd have to appeal. And that would mean another Public Inquiry.

Thanks. I obviously misunderstood the "review of alternative sites" bit. I somehow got myself under the impression that if an other site was deemed to be suitable, then we could build there. Didn't realise the whole process would have to start again.
 


eastlondonseagull

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2004
13,385
West Yorkshire
roz said:
LDC's keenness to promote Sheepcote does, in fact, mean they are perfectly happy to crap on the Falmer villagers they've assured everyone they are attempting to "protect" from the nasty stadium and consequent hordes of duck stoning supporters.

Because there's only one logical route to Sheepcote for anyone travelling from east or west on the A27. And that's the route through Falmer that is...

I, for one, would love to take a WEE detour.
 




Braders

Abi Fletchers Gimpboy
Jul 15, 2003
29,224
Brighton, United Kingdom
:clap: this reads like good news to me , thanks :)
 




Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here