Syria vote Labour demands evidence

[SeagullinExile]

Hehehe

 

[martyn20]

What is your summation of the situation then?

What I believe is that until the United Nations report is filed, we shouldn't launch military action.

So you do not yet believe a chemical weapon attack happened at all?

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

So you do not yet believe an a chemical weapon attack happened at all?

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that we should wait for legal justification for a war before we pile in. Even then, how can we afford to pay for ANOTHER war in the middle east whilst the welfare budget in this country gets cut?

 

[martyn20]

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that we should wait for legal justification for a war before we pile in. Even then, how can we afford to pay for ANOTHER war in the middle east whilst the welfare budget in this country gets cut?

But the UN report will just confirm what the world, and you, already know and Russia and China will never agree to a UN resolution involving military action so what are we waiting for in reality.
Also we are not talking about a war in the middle east we are talking about 2 or 3 days of targeted missile attacks. You really think Cameron or Obama want another 8 or 10 years in Syria fighting, you really think that's what they are planning as a way of stopping these WMD attacks.

 

[martyn20]

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that we should wait for legal justification for a war before we pile in. Even then, how can we afford to pay for ANOTHER war in the middle east whilst the welfare budget in this country gets cut?

And legally we do have a justification on humanitarian grounds, a doctrine instituted by Labour and laid out this afternoon.

 

[SeagullinExile]

So you do not yet believe a chemical weapon attack happened at all?

No ones saying that. Here's a novel idea - How about making sure we're accusing the right side before bombing them into the dark ages?!

The UN inspectors will be able shed more light on that. Lets see what they have to say when they've finished doing their job eh?

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

The US is to release it's own newly declassified intelligence report on the Syrian attacks tomorrow, that should include intercepted communications from the Assad regime discussing the attack.
No matter how strong the evidence is the UK defence secretary has confirmed the UK will not be involved in any military action after tonight's vote.

Will be interesting to see if the vote by our parliament will have any bearing on the US decision to go ahead (or not) with military intervention in Syria. I suspect not.

Will also be interesting to see how this unfolds over the next few weeks and whether the UK lives to regret inaction over the humanitarian situation in Syria.

I'm not the greatest fan of Cameron but at least history will show he gave Parliament a chance to vote on military action. Whereas Miliband will now be looking anxiously at what happens - if the humanitarian situation deteriorates he will be seen to be hand wringing whilst prevaricating on the sidelines. Worse still he should not be tempted into cheapening the issue by turning this into a party political matter, as then he will be a very soft target.

 

[martyn20]

No ones saying that. Here's a novel idea - How about making sure we're accusing the right side before bombing them into the dark ages?!

The UN inspectors will be able shed more light on that. Lets see what they have to say when they've finished doing their job eh?

The inspectors will only report on if an attack happened, not on who did it, they are not investigating that. I have already said I trust the rebels as much as I trust the Assad regime but I have seen nothing to confirm the rebels have the capability to launch an attack like this, nothing at all. The Syrian government has the means and the chemicals and has done this before.

 

[SeagullinExile]

The inspectors will only report on if an attack happened, not on who did it, they are not investigating that. I have already said I trust the rebels as much as I trust the Assad regime but I have seen nothing to confirm the rebels have the capability to launch an attack like this, nothing at all. The Syrian government has the means and the chemicals and has done this before.

Then I suggest you do a little more research into the conflict and who these so called 'rebels' actually are

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

But the UN report will just confirm what the world, and you, already know and Russia and China will never agree to a UN resolution involving military action so what are we waiting for in reality.
Also we are not talking about a war in the middle east we are talking about 2 or 3 days of targeted missile attacks. You really think Cameron or Obama want another 8 or 10 years in Syria fighting, you really think that's what they are planning as a way of stopping these WMD attacks.

What does two or three days of targeted missile attacks mean though? You don't know. I don't know. What happens if one of those missiles goes astray and obliterates a school? Is that justified on humanitarian action? All I am saying is that warmongering, especially by w*nkers like you, is just that, warmongering, until it is backed by legitimate UN resolutions. Even then it is still warmongering.

 

[martyn20]

Then I suggest you do a little more research into the conflict and who these so called 'rebels' actually are

Please enlighten me, how did the rebels deliver the shells with the chemical agents?

 

[martyn20]

What does two or three days of targeted missile attacks mean though? You don't know. I don't know. What happens if one of those missiles goes astray and obliterates a school? Is that justified on humanitarian action? All I am saying is that warmongering, especially by w*nkers like you, is just that, warmongering, until it is backed by legitimate UN resolutions. Even then it is still warmongering.

Yep name calling that always helps make a point.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Please enlighten me, how did the rebels deliver the shells with the chemical agents?

How would you know they didn't? Are you privvy to every armament that the rebels have?

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Yep name calling that always helps make a point.

Ignore that then and answer the first question.

 

[martyn20]

How would you know they didn't? Are you privvy to every armament that the rebels have?

And neither are you. Wait and see what the new US intelligence tells us tomorrow, I think it maybe conclusive, the UN will then confirm on Saturday that an attack happened but they cannot tell us by who so people will still demand no action. Mean while more schools will be bombed like the one this afternoon, I won't put the picture here.

 

[martyn20]

Ignore that then and answer the first question.

I know what a limited attack with missiles and planes looks like we have done it before in Libya and in the 1990's over Bosnia, not to mention the 1998 attacks on Iraq

 

[SeagullinExile]

Please enlighten me, how did the rebels deliver the shells with the chemical agents?

Well, they used a home made rocket to fire a low grade chlorine bomb a few months back. Funnily enough, one of the incidents the UN was ALREADY in Syria to investigate at the time of last weeks attack (At the request of Syria I might add). Talking of timing, rather odd that Assad would wait until the worlds eyes are watching then launch an attack don't you think? He quite frankly had nothing to gain, but, everything to lose.

 

[martyn20]

Well, they used a home made rocket to fire a low grade chlorine bomb a few months back. Funnily enough, one of the incidents the UN was ALREADY in Syria to investigate at the time of last weeks attack (At the request of Syria I might add). Talking of timing, rather odd that Assad would wait until the worlds eyes are watching then launch an attack don't you think? He quite frankly had nothing to gain, but, everything to lose.

Is there a source that confirms this home made rocket attack, I would be interested to read about it from where you heard it, would be a good place to bookmark for an alternative view. Not sure the timing of the attack is conclusive proof of whether one side or the other committed it.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

And neither are you. Wait and see what the new US intelligence tells us tomorrow, I think it maybe conclusive, the UN will then confirm on Saturday that an attack happened but they cannot tell us by who so people will still demand no action. Mean while more schools will be bombed like the one this afternoon, I won't put the picture here.

It's chumps like you that still believe the 45 minute claim. Jesus Christ.

As for the schools bit. I'm not points scoring as to who has caused the worst massacre so far, I am saying that if a third party were to commit an atrocity in an attack that proved illegal, what then?

 

[martyn20]

It's chumps like you that still believe the 45 minute claim. Jesus Christ.

As for the schools bit. I'm not points scoring as to who has caused the worst massacre so far, I am saying that if a third party were to commit an atrocity in an attack that proved illegal, what then?

And there's the name calling again, bye!