Syria vote Labour demands evidence

[Tory Boy]

This is the real tragedy.

I agree.

But is the answer to do nothing?

TB

 

[lawros left foot]

So what do we do? Bomb the Syrian government? Not that easy, civilians will undoubtedly be killed. They have a term called collateral damage, and basically, this is civilian casualties that the powers that be find acceptable, my question is,ls it morally better to blow people to bits to prove that it is morally repungent to gas them. I dont think the parents of dead kids really care which awful death thier children suffer, or which bunch of killers have the moral high ground

 

[Pavilionaire]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that wise men stand by and do nothing" - Edmund Burke.

I agree with this. However, to be wise you need facts. We must go to great lengths to establish who did what, it's why we have UN inspectors. Present them to China and Russia then put them on the spot.

We can't steam in bombing unless we know Assad poisoned his people. And if he did then we need to prepare ourselves for swift military intervention to bring his regime down. If this is done on humanitarian grounds then surely the diplomats can engineer a position with Russia and China?

 

[warsaw]

So what do we do? Bomb the Syrian government? Not that easy, civilians will undoubtedly be killed. They have a term called collateral damage, and basically, this is civilian casualties that the powers that be find acceptable, my question is,ls it morally better to blow people to bits to prove that it is morally repungent to gas them. I dont think the parents of dead kids really care which awful death thier children suffer, or which bunch of killers have the moral high ground

Absolutely this. There will be more civilians killed by rogue missiles or because they will be used as human shields than were lost to the chemical attack, so does that make it a price worth paying?

 

[martyn20]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that wise men stand by and do nothing" - Edmund Burke.

I agree with this. However, to be wise you need facts. We must go to great lengths to establish who did what, it's why we have UN inspectors. Present them to China and Russia then put them on the spot.

We can't steam in bombing unless we know Assad poisoned his people. And if he did then we need to prepare ourselves for swift military intervention to bring his regime down. If this is done on humanitarian grounds then surely the diplomats can engineer a position with Russia and China?

That's a nice sentiment unfortunately that's what what the inspectors are there for, they are only establishing if any chemical attack happen, not who actually did it!

 

[Buzzer]

Let the French or Germans do something about it this time.

If Labour manage to stop the ConDem government going into yet another war where our armed forces will be forced to kill civilians and we have no hope of ever winning, then I will vote for them for the very first time in my life at the next election.

Not to mention the speniding of billions of pounds that this country cannot afford. Sort this country out first, when it is free of corruption, homelessness, poverty and prejudice, then we can go and help others, and with a proven track record.

This post says it all for me. Spot on, Phil.

 

[Pavilionaire]

That's a nice sentiment unfortunately that's what what the inspectors are there for, they are only establishing if any chemical attack happen, not who actually did it!

I know that but common sense dicates that they should do their utmost to find out who was responsible. Otherwise, what's the point? And if they stick rigidly to their brief and the facts are not forthcoming from the UN then it is difficult to justify military intervention.

 

[Soulman]

It just seems to me that there will never be peace in the Middle East.
You have trouble in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Nigeria, Syria, Iran, Yemen etc, and what is the common denominator.
Damned if we get involved, damned if we don't.
If this one is sorted out, then it will festure again like Iraq.
These people do not want peace....end of

 

[martyn20]

I know that but common sense dicates that they should do their utmost to find out who was responsible. Otherwise, what's the point? And if they stick rigidly to their brief and the facts are not forthcoming from the UN then it is difficult to justify military intervention.

That's what confuses me about Labour's tactics, the UN have made it clear their team will not apportion blame in any way, it would not be correct and against the remit in which they were allowed into the country.

 

[knocky1]

But is the answer to do nothing?

TB

I do not think it is. Going to the thread title Ed Milliband should have a strategy of what he thinks is the best way to deal with this and not play House of Commons voting games. I think Assad should be removed from power and the consequences then dealt with.

 

[knocky1]

It just seems to me that there will never be peace in the Middle East.
You have trouble in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Nigeria, Syria, Iran, Yemen etc, and what is the common denominator.
Damned if we get involved, damned if we don't.
If this one is sorted out, then it will festure again like Iraq.
These people do not want peace....end of

Israel is doing very well. Nigeria is fraudulently part of the Middle East thanks to you. Morocco and Tunisia are North African Muslim countries that have dealt well with current turmoil.

 

[Buzzer]

I agree.

But is the answer to do nothing?

TB

The answer is for us to do nothing (in the way of military action). If the UN agree to action then let other countries pick up the tab. We've already gone above and beyond what is required. I know it sounds harsh but we're not big enough nor rich enough to be the world policeman.

 

[martyn20]

Doctors without borders who had people on the front line treating victims and who recorded some of the footage available seem to have confirmed if an attack happened so why UN Inspectors have to have 6 days and then fly back to New York to speak to the Sec-Gen in person to confirm the same thing eludes me.
I am sure someone here will confirm Médecins Sans Frontières are all part of a massive conspiracy being run by the Bilderberg Group who use our politicians as their puppets!

 

[yxee]

Can someone explain to me how the detonation of trinitrotoluene in civilian areas that has been going on for two years in Syria is somehow not a chemical weapon?

We don't know what happened, until we do, we're risking making irreversible commitments in a fog of war. Better to act late on the right side than to intervene early and join the wrong side of a war.

 

[The Birdman]

Prime Minister David Cameron risks losing a vote on Syria today after the Labour opposition refused to back him, demanding tighter conditions on any military action.


All politicians are
Maybe they could use the same evidence that Labour presented for Iraq....

Hate them all

I agree I hate the Syrian dictator however the ordinary pepole are suffering.

Labour two face twats.

 

[beorhthelm]

That's what confuses me about Labour's tactics, the UN have made it clear their team will not apportion blame in any way, it would not be correct and against the remit in which they were allowed into the country.

i hope you're wrong there. my understanding is that everyone, Russia and Iran included, acknowledges there was a chemical attack. The UN mission set out when that was still ambiguous, but now its a matter of confirming whats known and determining the source of attack (i avoid the term "side" deliberatly as im sure the UN would). If thats not the case, then this is all futile, the UN should leave and disband as an impotent institution.

 

[yxee]

I agree I hate the Syrian dictator however the ordinary pepole are suffering.

Labour two face twats.

By this definition, the only way not to be two-faced is to be in favour of every single war...

 

[Ceej]

If I saw someone killing my son or daughter I might well kill them. That's just the way it is. So until you know FOR SURE who is doing what to whom DO NOT run the risk of killing too many innocents. Get a concensus, discuss it properly and only THEN do the right thing. It's not fr***ing rocket science.

 

[martyn20]

i hope you're wrong there. my understanding is that everyone, Russia and Iran included, acknowledges there was a chemical attack. The UN mission set out when that was still ambiguous, but now its a matter of confirming whats known and determining the source of attack (i avoid the term "side" deliberatly as im sure the UN would). If thats not the case, then this is all futile, the UN should leave and disband as an impotent institution.

UN mission in Syria won't determine which side used chemical weapons - expert

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_...which-side-used-chemical-weapons-expert-9657/

Quote from article-

The team will be unable to determine which side actually used the internationally banned weapons, but will only confirm whether or not chemical weapons were in fact used.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_...which-side-used-chemical-weapons-expert-9657/

 

[pork pie]

UN mission in Syria won't determine which side used chemical weapons - expert

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_...which-side-used-chemical-weapons-expert-9657/

Quote from article-

Maybe the clue to the validity of that is in the title of the source? Russia is not going to support any action against their puppet state.