Safe Standing Bill launched in Parliament

[eastlondonseagull]

Good luck to him, I say

The Football Supporters' Federation - Safe Standing Bill launched in Parliament

8th December 2010

Don Foster MP, former Liberal Democrats sports spokesman, has launched a bid to allow safe standing to be introduced into football grounds in England and Wales. Speaking yesterday the Bath MP launched his Safe Standing Bill by telling Parliament that there was no evidence to show that properly designed standing areas were inherently unsafe.

The bill would give all football clubs “the freedom to build, or maintain existing, safe standing sections in their stadia if they choose” in an established framework of minimum safety criteria. MPs introduce so-called “10 Minute Rule” bills in order to draw attention to specific issues and they can eventually become law.

Surveys regularly show that nine out of 10 supporters believe they should be given the choice over whether they prefer to stand or sit. Safe standing areas in Germany have also proven to be a great success contributing to both improved atmospheres and cheaper ticket prices as more fans can be accommodated, thus lowering prices.

Opponents of standing areas in Britain often raise the spectre of the Hillsborough disaster. Foster acknowledged this but pointed out that the tragedy of 15th April 1989, and its devastating impact, was not caused by standing.

Foster said: “Lord Taylor’s report into Hillsborough cited many reasons why the disaster occurred. The fact the crowd was standing was not one of those reasons. Rather, it happened as a result of gross overcrowding, a lack of concern for the safety and comfort of spectators, a lack of awareness of existing safety regulation, and the poor design of the old style terraces. The disaster happened because of a culture of negligence, not because standing is inherently unsafe.”

The introduction of safe standing areas into football stadiums in England and Wales would not only benefit those who wish to stand but also those who choose to sit. While Taylor envisaged all fans would eventually accept and prefer seating this has not happened. Thousands of supporters across the country ignore ground regulations game in, game out as they prefer to stand.

“If it can be done safely - and it can be - I believe it would be far better to have a mix of safe seating and safe standing areas in stadia where clubs chose to offer such options. That way, children, families, and those who want a more peaceful experience could have it, while those who want to stand could exercise that right,” he said.

Chris Nash, who heads up the FSF’s Safe Standing campaign also welcomed the bill: “Within the lower leagues, rugby league, and horseracing standing areas are safely available. There’s all sorts of legislation to make them safe and there’s no reason it can’t do in top-level football. Why do we have this quirk whereby clubs in the Premier League and Championship are singled out and treated differently?” At present anti-standing legislation does not apply to Leagues One and Two.

 

[The Large One]

Sadly, Parliamentary time will not allow it through, but it's about time this was nationally debated sensibly and unemotionally.

 

[withdeanwombat]

8% support.

 

[Storer68]

No chance.

Government ALWAYS OPPOSES ten minute rule bills in debate unless its a manifesto issue (never is) and without Government support doen't stand a snowball's chance in hell of gettig firther.

Ironically a certain David Bellotti (C@NT) is very friendly is Don Foster (DF gave him a job when he moved west)

 

[drew]

He states that standing wasn't the cause of the disaster and he is right but had the leppings lane end been all seater, would the disaster have been as devastating? It's like saying that speeding doesn't cause accidents, just bad driving or that it's not guns that kill, it's the people that use them.

 

[Storer68]

He states that standing wasn't the cause of the disaster and he is right but had the leppings lane end been all seater, would the disaster have been as devastating? It's like saying that speeding doesn't cause accidents, just bad driving or that it's not guns that kill, it's the people that use them.

Yes, he's right that standing, of itself, was not the cause. And the official report by lord Justice Taylor kind of admitted as much. The cause was the late surge of supporters. the limited access into the terracing of the Leppings Lane End, and the overcrowding that had gone unchecked in the central pen

Had the LLE been all seater , then they would have had to control access much more thoroughly (tickets, stewards etc) as the Safety of Sports Ground Actr required for seated areas. Controls for standing areas were much more relaxed (unlike now).

Although claiming that terraces were not "intrinsically unsafe", the Final Taylor Report into the disaster led to a recommendation that terraces be done away with at major British stadiums. The capacity for standing areas was reduced
Final reccomendation (Part V page 76)
All-Seated Accommodation
1. The Secretary of State should ensure that spectators are admitted only to seated accommodation at
matches played at sports grounds designated under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975 in accordance with
the timing set out in Recommendations 2 to 4 below.
2. Recommendation 1 should apply with effect from the start of the 1993/4 season at high-risk matches as
defined under the UEFA Regulations set out in paragraph 82 above.
3. Subject to Recommendation 2 above, Recommendation 1 above should apply with effect from the start of
the 1994/5 season to all matches at grounds in the first and second divisions of the Football League, the
Premier Division of the Scottish Football League, and at national stadia, subject to a reasonable extension of
time in the case of a club promoted to the second division of the Football League or the Premier Division of the
Scottish Football League. Standing accommodation at these grounds should be reduced annually by 20% of the
present standing capacity (such present standing capacity to be calculated according to Recommendation 8
below), the first 20% deduction being effective from August 1990 so as to eliminate standing by August 1994.
4. Subject to Recommendation 2 above, Recommendation 1 should apply with effect from the start of the
1999/2000 season to all matches at all other grounds designated under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975.
Standing accommodation at these grounds should be reduced annually by 10% of the present standing capacity
(such present standing capacity to be calculated according to Recommendation 8 below), the first 10%
deduction being effective from August 1990 so as to eliminate standing by August 1999.
Advisory Design Council
5. The Football Association and the Football League should establish an Advisory Design Council whose
Filling and Monitoring Terraces
11. There should be a written statement of intent, agreed between the club and the police, setting out their
respective functions as to crowd safety and control and in particular as to the filling of each self-contained pen or
other standing area and the monitoring of spectators in each such pen or area to avoid overcrowding. Any
variation of the document in respect of an individual match should be agreed in writing in advance.
12. (a) At each match, there should be on the perimeter track, for each self-contained pen or other standing
area (subject to (b) below), a steward (if the club is monitoring that area) or a police officer (if the police are
monitoring it) whose sole duty is to check crowd conditions in that area for possible overcrowding or distress
throughout the period the area is occupied by spectators. Whoever is so appointed should be in addition to any
other steward or police presence. He should have ready access to a police officer who can authorise access
through gates to the pitch under Recommendation 20 below.
(b) This Recommendation need not be applied to any self-contained pen or other standing area where the
spectators present, or reasonably to be expected, during a particular match do not exceed one third of the area's
maximum permitted capacity, or 2,000, whichever is the lower.

 

[steward 433]

No he's right that standing, of itself, was not the cause. The cause was the late surge of supporters. the limited access into the terracing of the Leppings Lane End, and the overcrowding that had gone unchecked in the central pen

Mainly the barriers between the stand and the pitch. The surge onto the terrace would have just flooded onto the pitch without them!

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Whats the FIFA rule regarding this? Was safe standing used in Germany in 2006? I only ask because at Lansdowne Rd and Croke Park, Ireland were never allowed to use terracing for qualifiers. Not that I spose it matters after last week, but wouldn't want to convert the top stadiums here and then not be allowed to host a major tournament as a result...

 

[raymondbriggs]

Mainly the barriers between the stand and the pitch. The surge onto the terrace would have just flooded onto the pitch without them!

actually not in itself,the pen barriers prevented the crowd from moving across the stand parallel to the pitch.Pens either side of the crush were (fairly obviously)relatively empty

 

[steward 433]

actually not in itself,the pen barriers prevented the crowd from moving across the stand parallel to the pitch.Pens either side of the crush were (fairly obviously)relatively empty

Yes but the physical barrier was the problem not the surge it's self

 

[Paxton Dazo]

Whats the FIFA rule regarding this? Was safe standing used in Germany in 2006? I only ask because at Lansdowne Rd and Croke Park, Ireland were never allowed to use terracing for qualifiers. Not that I spose it matters after last week, but wouldn't want to convert the top stadiums here and then not be allowed to host a major tournament as a result...

We played Leverkusen Away in 2006, and if memory serves me correct, they had it..

..but I'm sure Bremen did too, last month?

 

[Brighton till i die]

Oh my days i would LOVE this to go thro.

All seating is an absolute joke. Its ruining the game for the fans.

Safe terraces work fine abroad, and can do here.

Here's hoping that knee jerk reaction report is tweaked.

 

[raymondbriggs]

Yes but the physical barrier was the problem not the surge it's self

It would be easier for the crush to dissipate sideways into empty pens that over a wall barrier,equally,fans at the flanks under pressure would seek the comfort of space in those flanks.this happened naturally and often in the North stand.

 

[raymondbriggs]

Oh my days i would LOVE this to go thro.

All seating is an absolute joke. Its ruining the game for the fans.

Safe terraces work fine abroad, and can do here.

Here's hoping that knee jerk reaction report is tweaked.

safe standing happens every week in the premiership.the fans refuse to be intimidated by the stewards and refuse to sit week in week out.

 

[Brighton till i die]

Standing infront of your seat aint that safe though ... Usually involves most of us going tumbling over all the chairs after a goal with bashed up shins!!!

Safe terraces is the only way.

 

[Ringmer Seagull]

Standing infront of your seat aint that safe though ... Usually involves most of us going tumbling over all the chairs after a goal with bashed up shins!!!

Safe terraces is the only way.

Don`t necessarily disagree but just out of interest, where do you sit at Withdean because I don`t recall seeing that ..and it certainly isn`t "usual".

 

[Captain Haddock]

Whats the FIFA rule regarding this? Was safe standing used in Germany in 2006? I only ask because at Lansdowne Rd and Croke Park, Ireland were never allowed to use terracing for qualifiers. Not that I spose it matters after last week, but wouldn't want to convert the top stadiums here and then not be allowed to host a major tournament as a result...

Hello mate. Good seeing you in the pub after FC home match.

Re: your question, I think you are right to think FIFA international tournaments require all-seater status but German stadiums have what we would also need to allow domestic venues to host major international events (and Champions League finals??): convertible space.

I went to Bremen and Hannover last season and both grounds had seating that was folded back and secured to allow safe standing...these same stadiums would then have 'released' and dropped down the seats to make all-seater. Best of both worlds...although we need to leave FIFA and tell them to stuff their Oil Boys' Club up their arses, if I'm honest!

 

[Captain Haddock]

Steward 433 and Raymondbriggs: you are both right! The lack of either obstacle would have significantly reduced the chances of fatalities, or ANY serious incident.

The lack of BOTH obstacles would have been ideal!

 

[Captain Haddock]

Two other points:

1) The Hillsborough groups are against the reintroduction of safe-standing (at least when I last read-up on it). This is unfortunate, if generally understandable, but their view is distorted by the emotive nature of it, nonetheless. To win this battle we would probably need to talk them round into realising that what happened to members of their community was endemic of the status of grounds in those days and of course the shocking negligence and fatal incompetence of the local police force, rather than a wider inherant danger caused by terracing per se.

2) Here's my communication to my MP and assembly members:


"London Assembly

Friday 10 December 2010

Dear Murad Qureshi, Nicky Gavron, Darren Johnson, Richard Barnbrook, Jenny Jones, Andrew Boff, Dee Doocey, Gareth Bacon, Victoria Borwick, Mike Tuffrey and Caroline Pidgeon,

I understand that Don Foster MP, former Liberal Democrats sports spokesman (and current Bath MP), has launched a bid to allow safe standing to be introduced into football grounds in England and Wales.

I know an overwhelming number of football-supporting people both at my football club, Brighton, and far afield and beyond, who are desperate to see the re-introduction of safe-standing at football matches. Each and every one of them are adamant that there is absolutely no logical reason to deny fans this basic right, neither is there a sustainable argument of any sort against it.

I am well aware of the history of how it's initial instigation came about. The events at Hillsborough that led to the inquiry and subsequent overhaul of the standing rules at games are well documented, but these relate to long-lost crumbling, precarious terraces that would in no way form any part of a future standing environment at football matches.

Proper administration of tickets, good policing (we are now the World leaders in this regard) and the allowance of common sense, would lead to a perfect way forward for the game, which has suffered immeasurably in terms of lack of atmosphere, lack of community and the disenfranchisement of the ordinary man (and woman and child) on the street.

It is extremely unpleasant and uncomfortable to be FORCED to sit on cold plastic seats in freezing conditions. It is deeply frustrating to have stifled the mere notion of turning up on the day and picking a STANDING spot from which to enjoy the match with friends (spontaneity, spur-of-the-moment impulsive attendance etc). It is unnatural and nigh on impossible to generate any kind of atmosphere, for which this country's fans have long been renowned, while seated...have you tried it?

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that seats provide a very uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous obstacle for the celebrating fan...celebrating a goal is an involuntary, impulsive and natural reaction that is incongruous with the all-seater model clubs were made to incorporate by the findings of The Taylor Report from the mid-80s.

Please look to the German model for football fan-culture and workability to see that controlled, ticketed terracing arrangements are the way forward.

Research the subject to discover that the huge majority of fans are in favour, not of a desire to stand necessarily, but certainly of THE CHOICE TO DO SO!

In every ground in the country, supporters - ordinary, law-abiding, decent human-beings - are treated as school-children by authority figures who use the weapon that is this legislation, to over-bear, bully, cajole and frustrate these people.

It causes animosity, it alienates and it dis-incentivises supporters to participate in the creation of the atmosphere and pleasurable match-going experience that is the very birth-right of this great nation.

The causes of the Hillsborough disaster were ostensibly those of decaying and neglected facilities coupled with issues surrounding the policing and administration of the match.

The former are a matter of historical record only, long-since addressed and improved upon. The latter is, I hope, a matter that is also in the past, and which is either way NOT the fault of the football-going public anyway...and never was!

I hope you will be able to recognise the points raised above and urge you to act swiftly and decisively to support what is both a every popular and rather obviously good and worthy cause.

Bring back SAFE standing!!!

Yours sincerely,

"....

 

[Brighton till i die]

Don`t necessarily disagree but just out of interest, where do you sit at Withdean because I don`t recall seeing that ..and it certainly isn`t "usual".

Lol, i dont go to Withdean anymore mate but ive never seen it there, except
Virgos last min goal in play offs v swindon!

I was more referring to away games