Public Sector Pensions Reform - About friggin time..

[nicko31]

Yesterday's news from the Hutton enquiry will ensure the government press ahead with much needed reform of public sector pensions. With virtually no FTSE 100 company left offering a final salary scheme it clearly demonstrates the situation in no longer substainable. The rest of us have had to learn to adapt, welcome to the real world. Sorry Mr. Fireman, you can retire at 55 in future, but your pension will reflect that. I have no doubt the Unions are going to cause us shit loads of grief, but they are wasting their time, there's no going back...

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

Couldn't agree more.

 

[bhaexpress]

Have to say it's about time this was looked at.

 

[adrian29uk]

Yesterday's news from the Hutton enquiry will ensure the government press ahead with much needed reform of public sector pensions. With virtually no FTSE 100 company left offering a final salary scheme it clearly demonstrates the situation in no longer substainable. The rest of us have had to learn to adapt, welcome to the real world. Sorry Mr. Fireman, you can retire at 55 in future, but your pension will reflect that. I have no doubt the Unions are going to cause us shit loads of grief, but they are wasting their time, there's no going back...

Yes I agree it needs reform because in the real world as you call it, we don't get the same pension benefits, but its very very easy to start bashing public sector workers. Can you not see what the goverment are doing here, they are putting worker against worker.

My wife is teacher at a secondary school and it does piss me off when people have a go at public sector workers. Most teachers are at breaking point because they are not allowed to exclude kids from education even if they disrupt the class. They are wound up in so much red tape its a joke.

When you have a pop at public sector workers, you are also having a go at Nurses, Fire Fighters, Police think about it. Go and do their jobs for a week or two and see how you feel about your statement after this.

Why not blame the bastards that put us in the mess in the first place.

 

[GOM]

Yes I agree it needs reform because in the real world as you call it, we don't get the same pension benefits, but its very very easy to start bashing public sector workers. Can you not see what the goverment are doing here, they are putting worker against worker.

My wife is teacher at a secondary school and it does piss me off when people have a go at public sector workers. Most teachers are at breaking point because they are not allowed to exclude kids from education even if they disrupt the class. They are wound up in so much red tape its a joke.

When you have a pop at public sector workers, you are also having a go at Nurses, Fire Fighters, Police think about it. Go and do their jobs for a week or two and see how you feel about your statement after this.

Why not blame the bastards that put us in the mess in the first place.

Very prickly there !
Nobody is having a pop at public sector workers, they are having a pop at the unsustainable pensions that we all have to pay for.

 

[adrian29uk]

Very prickly there !
Nobody is having a pop at public sector workers, they are having a pop at the unsustainable pensions that we all have to pay for.

It just sounds like it. My wife went in to teaching to make a difference, not because of the pension or anything else. But all this goverment is doing is putting worker against worker. Why has no one questioned what these politicians are getting. Are the politicians pensions safe? I bet they are.

This goverment are again picking on the wrong people.

 

[nicko31]

It just sounds like it. My wife went in to teaching to make a difference, not because of the pension or anything else. But all this goverment is doing is putting worker against worker. Why has no one questioned what these politicians are getting. Are the politicians pensions safe? I bet they are.

This goverment are again picking on the wrong people.

Very totally unsustainable. Masses of baby boomers retiring, longer life expectancy and people entering the labour market later and later due to high education. Something has to give. We are not unique the whole of Europe has the same issue, even the French are waking up and smelling the coffee!!

 

[adrian29uk]

Very totally unsustainable. Masses of baby boomers retiring, longer life expectancy and people entering the labour market later and later due to high education. Something has to give. We are not unique the whole of Europe has the same issue, even the French are waking up and smelling the coffee!!

I agree it is unsustainable. But nobody blames the people that put us in the mess in the first place do they.

 

[strings]

I suspect the wrong people will be hit by this, and I'm not necessarily blaming the government. The people at the top end of the public sector will almost certainly find a way to protect their pension, whilst the people at the bottom of the pile will have to work longer, pay more into the scheme, and recieve less once they finally retire.

I very much hope I'm wrong. But it seems to me that the people who work the hardest are usually the ones to take the biggest hits.

I agree something has to be done - I just hope that the correct people are protected.

 

[Uncle C]

My wife went in to teaching to make a difference, not because of the pension or anything else.

So why the big deal about pensions getting cut?

 

[Mr Everyone]

I suspect the wrong people will be hit by this, and I'm not necessarily blaming the government. The people at the top end of the public sector will almost certainly find a way to protect their pension, whilst the people at the bottom of the pile will have to work longer, pay more into the scheme, and recieve less once they finally retire.

I very much hope I'm wrong. But it seems to me that the people who work the hardest are usually the ones to take the biggest hits.

I agree something has to be done - I just hope that the correct people are protected.

I couldn't have worded this any better.

 

[sten_super]

I suspect the wrong people will be hit by this, and I'm not necessarily blaming the government. The people at the top end of the public sector will almost certainly find a way to protect their pension, whilst the people at the bottom of the pile will have to work longer, pay more into the scheme, and recieve less once they finally retire.

This is of course true; it is the people at the bottom that are much more dependent upon their public sector pension on retirement. However that doesn't mean that they should be afforded pensions that are beyond the reach of workers in the private sector.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

It just sounds like it. My wife went in to teaching to make a difference, not because of the pension or anything else. But all this goverment is doing is putting worker against worker. Why has no one questioned what these politicians are getting. Are the politicians pensions safe? I bet they are.

This goverment are again picking on the wrong people.

Half my wider family and close friends are in the public sector - mainly NHS - and half are in the private sector. You can tell the difference by looking at them. The former are quite well off, still secure in their jobs, with good mortgages and decent cars. The latter (mainly) work all the hours god sends, have been worried about their jobs for years and have always assumed that they will work until their late sixties. Two of them have been unemployed in the last year.

There will always be thousands and thousands of exceptions and it is a waste or time to use them as examples. The fact is that on average public sector workers are better paid, have better working conditions, better job security still and vastly better pensions.

This is the real divide between workers and I am tired of public sector workers citing the bankers and fat cats as examples of private sector greed. Those people stitched up private sector workers as well as public sector ones.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes I agree it needs reform because in the real world as you call it, we don't get the same pension benefits, but its very very easy to start bashing public sector workers. Can you not see what the goverment are doing here, they are putting worker against worker.

i do think we need to avoid knocking the public sector, after all most do very usful work (albeit there is alot of waste and low productivity in places - thats an issue about the managment of the public secotr though not the workers.). but i dont think its necessarily the government knoncking, rather some elements of the press, who get on a high horse to head off the unions. the government hasnt even commented on the report but some unions are already proposing strike ballots.

here's a plan. how about, we in the private sector agree to not bitch and moan about the public sector, if the public sector promise to not bitch and moan about their pensions be moved closer* in line with the private pensions? comments like "gold plated" should be avoided as they dont apply to the rank and file, but public sector workers need to be reflective about how much better off they will be than the average private sector worker, who often have nothing other than the state pension.

*private pensions will still be behind those in the public sector, even if all the recommendations are adopted.

So why the big deal about pensions getting cut?

and this.


and another thing... lets not drag "the bankers" or the financial crisis in to this issue. its an issue that was around long before, its been debated and avoid for as long as i can remember. there are fundemental problems with the existing structure to public sector pensions (and state pension for the matter) that have to be addressed, which are simple economics not politics. we cannot afford the status quo in the the future. we cant really afford it right now.

 

[bhaexpress]

I suspect the wrong people will be hit by this, and I'm not necessarily blaming the government. The people at the top end of the public sector will almost certainly find a way to protect their pension, whilst the people at the bottom of the pile will have to work longer, pay more into the scheme, and recieve less once they finally retire.

I very much hope I'm wrong. But it seems to me that the people who work the hardest are usually the ones to take the biggest hits.

I agree something has to be done - I just hope that the correct people are protected.

I have sad feeling that your are right here. The problems in the Public Sector start at the top and trickle down.

 

[APACHE]

The race to the bottom in pensions and wages has started under the Com/Lims.

 

[bhaexpress]

The race to the bottom in pensions and wages has started under the Com/Lims.

Yes but it will be undermined by the people tasked to do their bidding. I would say that Civil Service unions are the strongest in the country now.

 

[Mammoth]

Yesterday's news from the Hutton enquiry will ensure the government press ahead with much needed reform of public sector pensions. With virtually no FTSE 100 company left offering a final salary scheme it clearly demonstrates the situation in no longer substainable. The rest of us have had to learn to adapt, welcome to the real world. Sorry Mr. Fireman, you can retire at 55 in future, but your pension will reflect that. I have no doubt the Unions are going to cause us shit loads of grief, but they are wasting their time, there's no going back...

Firstly, I don't remember my public sector pension being non contributory. It's only the top bods who get theirs for free.

Secondly, there are also loads of failed pension schemes from the private sector bailed out by public funds. Do you think this should stop too, and those poor ripped off pensioners should go and live in the real world aswell?

Finally, when the private sector moved from defined benefits to money purchase schemes, they did not retrospectively change the t+c's for existing members without agreement- this would have been unlawful.

Without the teachers, nurses, coppers, soldiers and others employed by the state, your life would quickly become pretty shitty. Yesterday I was having a drink with a para who had suffered a permanent disability via head wound in Iraq. Perhaps you would like to explain to him he needs to live in the real world.

 

[simmo]

This is the real divide between workers and I am tired of public sector workers citing the bankers and fat cats as examples of private sector greed. Those people stitched up private sector workers as well as public sector ones.

That is absoultely spot on 99% of us in the private sector, don't work in banks and we have been suffering with bankrupcies, redundancies, job cuts since Autumn 2008 when this financial crisis started (I personally think that for about 18 months of that the public sector has not felt this and now they are. I feel sorry for them of course as I do for anyone in this position but that is the way of the economic situation and it is what the rest of us have been feeling for 2.5 years now). I also know that in the private sector my redundancy age has been increased until I am 66 from 65 and I also have to make my own provisions for my retirement pension pot (no chance of a state funded final salary for me).

 

[withdeanwombat]

This is a tricky one.

Compared to most,public servants have a decent pension scheme.People who don't have such schemes are miffed because they don't.So to bring things to their lowest common point,if I can't have it,they shouldn't have it either.Which is just what you might expect politicians to encourage whilst they enjoy a goldplated scheme.

The teachers may not be the best reference,but if you do take them,you are looking at a body of highly qualified folk doing their jobs for relatively low pay.Don't argue at the back,I said relatively.It's good pay,but not top of the range money for people who could probably earn more given their level of qualification elsewhere.The trade off has been the conditions of service.If these are worsened will there be so steady a flow of people willing to undertake the task? Take away the pension ......and then what?

As I said,it's a tricky one.