Mattstrugnell
PC Beard's Stare
- Jan 2, 2011
- 106
Fans United. I feel for the fans and the staff.. f***ing shit situation. Risdale seems to be an expert at wrecking football clubs.
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Plymouth FINNISHED ?
- Thread starter Ernest
- Start date
jabba the gut ecfc
New member
- Sep 1, 2011
- 8
Presumably for the same reason they appear to have no problem with a member of a middle-eastern family dictatorship, accused of repression and human rights abuses by the likes of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and who are effectively using the Sovereign Wealth of the country that they have essentially looted from the population, buyiing a Premier League Club and funding it to what will probably be a procession of major titles, in order to enhance their prestige on the international stage.
And don't even get me started on Arrobervitch.
jabba the gut ecfc
New member
- Sep 1, 2011
- 8
Because football operates in kind of strange parallel universe where supporters check their normal sensibilities - particularly healthy scepticism - in at the turnstiles. Many of us care only about achieving an ever higher league position and are prepared to turn a blind eye to anything else as long as that prospect is in sight.
The emotional investment fans have in their clubs is something that makes us vulnerable to the blandishments of ruthless individuals who know how to use that emotion to their advantage. The Riddler is an absolute master of the art. In fact in some ways it's been admirable to watch him at work on my Green chums down the road. I've never really paid attention to his genius Jedi-Mind control powers before.
No matter how many times it has been shown that him and his crony Guilfoyle have lied and told half-truths to the PAFC fanbase and employees - or no matter how unlikely the fairytale he concocts to explain the numerous supicious coincidences and links that mark this sorry saga (such as the infamous "walking holiday" X-isle mentioned") there are always fans desperate to believe that the intentions of him and his cronies are honourable.
Only last week he pitched up at the fans vigil and from what I'm told, put on the "amiable Pete" act, spouted the identical BS that he's been spouting for months and at the end of it all was actually applauded by the Argyle fans! It's truly breathtaking - I bet he has the "Big Lie" paragraph of Mein Kampf framed and mounted on his office wall.
The problem is compounded by the madness of the financial doping of the Premier League, filtering through the rest of football. Consequently there is constant pressure for clubs to take risks. In a sense the whole Plymouth saga began when the old board went chasing that old football euphemism "investment to take the club further".
Add to that the fact that football clubs with historic stadiums often have grounds that are nice juicy pieces of real estate - but I guess no-one needs to tell you lot about that.
What X-isle (who has long been one of the few Cassandra-like voices trying to warn his fellow Greens of the dangers of the Riddler and his mate Guilfoyle) perhaps hasn't stressed enough is the suspicion that getting their hands on the ground was in all probability the prime motivation of the property developers behind this epic stitch-up. After all they themselves admit they have no real interest in the football side of Argyle.
Even if the deal goes through, the club will be separated from the ground and in the hands of property developers who are already going to develop land around it. If they could get their hands on the entire footprint (i.e Home Park plus the existing contiguous development land) the value to them would increase exponentially.
What price a slow, engineered death-spiral of Argyle, ending in Bishop International throwing their hands up and saying "Sorry, we tried but failed" and liquidating the football club?
Unlike the existing situation, the assets of the club (which the property sharks have already admitted they don't want) goes to the Official Receiver to dispose of. However the REALLY juicy part (the ground) is safely in the grubby little mitts of the Riddler's puppetmasters - only now it's a white elephant with no football club to play there. I suspect in that scenario the much-vaunted sporting-use covenant would resemble a condom with a hole in it. After all Plough Lane had a covenant supposedly protecting it and IIRC you once had a clause in your constitution preventing the Goldstone being sold for personal gain.
Believe it or not, I feel genuinely sad about the potential outcome - I want to see the Greens humiliated on the pitch, as you'd expect - but I also want them to survive. If nothing else it would be a disaster for South-West football. However I have to say that if the only way to get rid of the repellent vultures circling the club is to pack up and start again, that's exactly what they should do.
PS: Give us our Harley back! (We need him more than you do).
Great post Jabs.
And so nice to see eloquence for a change too. I've tried to follow the 'tweets' on twatterface (or whatever it's called) from 'digger' today. It's like reading the random keystrokes of someone clumsily jabbing the keyboard with their knob while watching porn on the internet.
I'm up for starting again. Haven't seen Argyle win for three years now, it's been ten games since I even saw a goal FFS. I'd happily take a trip to Collumpton to see something other than continuous decline and crisis lurch to crisis lurch. It holds no fear for me but best try and save what we've got first though, however gloomy it looks we've gotta try.
And so nice to see eloquence for a change too. I've tried to follow the 'tweets' on twatterface (or whatever it's called) from 'digger' today. It's like reading the random keystrokes of someone clumsily jabbing the keyboard with their knob while watching porn on the internet.
I'm up for starting again. Haven't seen Argyle win for three years now, it's been ten games since I even saw a goal FFS. I'd happily take a trip to Collumpton to see something other than continuous decline and crisis lurch to crisis lurch. It holds no fear for me but best try and save what we've got first though, however gloomy it looks we've gotta try.
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StillHateBellotti
Active member
How many will you take to Creepy Crawley and how many does the away end hold! Im sure it will be pay on the gate?
Dick Knights Mumm
Take me Home Falmer Road
Beware the anger of a patient man. Ask Mubarek.
Brilliant post. I love that sentence in your first paragraph (which I've highlighted) as it's something that I've been banging on about for ages, namely that no fans ever berate their chairman for spending too much, it's always "we need to invest in a new striker/midfielder/defender as it's vitally important that we get promoted / don't get relegated". There's never any real thought as to how it will all be funded other than vague thoughts that a higher league position means higher gates and the hope that the money will come back that way.
I'm usually a bit of a hawk in these circumstances, I don't think the long-term interests of professional football as a whole are best served by clubs continually running up debts, going into Administration, and then coming out with a clean slate and restarting at exactly the same place in the pyramid (give or take the puny points deductions) that the old club occupied. All the while clubs can see the likes of Palace and Portsmouth (and Leeds and Leicester before them) sticking two fingers up to their creditors and getting away with it the temptation to go down the same path knowing it isn't the end of the world must be a strong one. And the problem is never isolated; clubs get into debt by overspending on players and other clubs overspend in turn to keep up, which is where Plymouth's problems started. I do think though that Plymouth were more 'sinned against than sinning', I actually blame the likes of Palace and Portsmouth for their plight, if Plymouth hadn't had to compete in the Championship with the 'cheat' clubs they might not be in this position. Sure they should have been more aware, but what club's fans want to hear their chairman say "Sorry, we're not signing anybody and we're selling our best players and getting relegated as we can't compete financially and we don't want to risk the long-term future of the club."
The most important thing now is to keep Home Park the home of Plymouth Argyle and out of the hands of property speculators. Having to follow the likes of Chester and Aldershot is not ideal obviously, but it's not the worst thing that could happen.
Mendoza
NSC's Most Stalked
Talksport talking about it now
Bwian
Kiss my (_!_)
- Jul 14, 2003
- 15,898
Wouldn't that be a brave, visionary chairman who did and said something like that? Oh wait. That is pretty much what Dick Knight did all the while he was in charge of The Albion despite some loud moans from fans (and falling season ticket sales). Makes me grateful for DK's prudence (despite which we were still pissing money away) and now Tony Bloom's New Albion. Without both of them we'd be worse off than Plymouth are right now. And some of the Palace wankers wonder why we remind them of how their time in the top two divisions is tainted every time they come on here boasting about how much better than us they've been for X years.
The very point i've been making all summer long since the prospect of divorce from the ground first came up, THAT's the worst that could happen, divorce from your ground. You become pauper tennants playing in the back garden of a property developers money making palace. No thanks.
I also fully agree about the reasons these problems arise. I would point out though Brovion that there WERE voices speaking up at the time all and sundry were clamouring for that "final push" for the premiership, demanding another striker from the chairman. They were rubbished however, I was one of them. However it gave me no pleasure at all to say "I told you so" when we fell out of the Championship and started sinking like a stone. What I would say in defence of the club at that pivotal time, and you allude to it yourself, was the overspend wasn't actually much, it just wasn't managed right. I think the motivation was noble and we never pushed the boat out beyond all reason like your Cardiffs or Pompeys did, our top signing was just £500k. But you just can't attract quality to the Devon & Cornwall border without paying high wages and that's what did us, it was then good money after bad trying to appease the fanbase and cling on.
In any event apart from pointing out there's no blood on MY hands all that is pretty much irrelevent now. We are where we are and we need to survive, just not "at any cost" which has often been said on our boards. I've challenged that notion because there are costs we shouldn't be paying, we shouldn't be selling out the football family values. All clubs have bad spells, but your club stands for more than just a name on a league table, it's measurement isn't just where it is on the league table either. If it hasn't got integrity, honesty, transparency, unity or trust then it's not set up right, if it isn't somnething your fathers or grandfathers would recognise, then neither should you.
Brent is our last hope to restore the family values, beyond that i'd rather fold and be reborn than face the hell you went through for 14 years after losing the Goldstone. You came good but you had many advantages we are not lucky enough to share, AFC's have shown us there's a quicker way to standing on your own two feet again.
Still rumour has it that Guilfoyle has been put on gardening leave and his partners at the insolvency firm are dealing with James Brent, they've also found the season ticket money Guilfoyle had lost and are proposing to release 40% of Augusts pay. It's hardly bunting inducing news but it's a start...........if true of course!. Much can change and the positivity-o-meter will no doubt swing fasters than a swingers convention before it's over one way or another.
The latest from the Home Park "send off" this morning.................
"Just a few thoughts on the what appears to have happened this morning.
The players and staff signed a waiver for their August wages in favour of being paid by PAFC 125 by 31st August. That waiver apparently absolved the P and A Partnership of the what would otherwise have been their liability for the August wages.
It is reported (though nowhere officially) that staff and players have signed another waiver for their September wage entitlement which allows 40% to be paid today (allegedly) but waives their right to the further 60%. Is this waiver in favour of PAFC 125 again or is it the P and A Partnership. Can anyone confirm.
Nevertheless, it may mean that what otherwise would have been another 'deadline' - the 14th September when P and A become responsible again for the monthly wage liability is now of no importance.
The implications of that of course is that it allows the administrator a longer period to 'get BIL over the line' or turn to an alternative such as James Brent.
We await the promised statement from the P and A Partnership with interest".
Fair play to the players I think, they didn't just hold out for a share of their own money, they insisted that the club staff got the same 40% share of their wages too. You see a lot of stories in the big leagues about player greed and selfishness, it's great to see unity and solidarity like that but I bet it'll not even get a passing mention.
When they were being paid last season they did a similar thing, donated a share of their wages to the staff who had by then had wages stopped. That was before players and staff were in the same boat. With Reidy paying bills out of his own pocket and selling his playing medals to help out there's been some fantastic stuff happening at Home Park.............yet still the activities of Ryan Giggs' knob or the Fabregas/Modric transfers pre-occupy the media.
So, game on (assuming money arrives as promised in their accounts!) and we move to the next corkscrew of the rollercoaster.
"Just a few thoughts on the what appears to have happened this morning.
The players and staff signed a waiver for their August wages in favour of being paid by PAFC 125 by 31st August. That waiver apparently absolved the P and A Partnership of the what would otherwise have been their liability for the August wages.
It is reported (though nowhere officially) that staff and players have signed another waiver for their September wage entitlement which allows 40% to be paid today (allegedly) but waives their right to the further 60%. Is this waiver in favour of PAFC 125 again or is it the P and A Partnership. Can anyone confirm.
Nevertheless, it may mean that what otherwise would have been another 'deadline' - the 14th September when P and A become responsible again for the monthly wage liability is now of no importance.
The implications of that of course is that it allows the administrator a longer period to 'get BIL over the line' or turn to an alternative such as James Brent.
We await the promised statement from the P and A Partnership with interest".
Fair play to the players I think, they didn't just hold out for a share of their own money, they insisted that the club staff got the same 40% share of their wages too. You see a lot of stories in the big leagues about player greed and selfishness, it's great to see unity and solidarity like that but I bet it'll not even get a passing mention.
When they were being paid last season they did a similar thing, donated a share of their wages to the staff who had by then had wages stopped. That was before players and staff were in the same boat. With Reidy paying bills out of his own pocket and selling his playing medals to help out there's been some fantastic stuff happening at Home Park.............yet still the activities of Ryan Giggs' knob or the Fabregas/Modric transfers pre-occupy the media.
So, game on (assuming money arrives as promised in their accounts!) and we move to the next corkscrew of the rollercoaster.
I hope they are talking to James Brent now.
The sooner Guilfoyle and Ridsdale are run out of town the better.
As for Reidy, I reckon he'll be up for a knighthood for the way he's behaved. I've never really rated him as a football manager, but he's really proved himself as an honourable man in the last year.
The sooner Guilfoyle and Ridsdale are run out of town the better.
As for Reidy, I reckon he'll be up for a knighthood for the way he's behaved. I've never really rated him as a football manager, but he's really proved himself as an honourable man in the last year.
Dick Knights Mumm
Take me Home Falmer Road
Cheers X Isle.
Certainly has, in addition he's not moaned once, not blamed the situation once. He's only allowed to sign players because the squad fell below 21, they've been rejects and under 19's in the main. Transfer window day, the sum total of his power to strengthen the bottom club of the entire football league?, two injured players on a months loan to increase their match fitness, brilliant!.
Personally the football at Home Park means absolutely nothing at the moment, there are far bigger problems. You'd have thought there wouldn't be a soul in the world who could fail to understand the situation. Yet on Saturday there were boos directed at him and his young team followed by a whole raft of 'fans' posting for him to be sacked due to results and his 'tactical deficiencies'.
Sometimes I despair of my fellow fans, I really do.
Herne Hill Seagull
Well-known member
Odd that, X Isle, and it does suggest a lack of understanding of the real problems. One thing I do remember very clearly about our own nadir as a club was that, though the opprobrium heaped on the board was intense and unrelenting, there was NO ire directed at the players. If anything, our worst team quality wise in the very late 90s had some of the most committed support I've ever seen at the Albion.
Good luck mate. We all remember the part a Plymouth fan played in Fans United and wish you all the best.
Good luck mate. We all remember the part a Plymouth fan played in Fans United and wish you all the best.
It's worse than that, it's a willing suspension of conscience. I took a real hammering for being one of the few who drew a line in the sand. We were accused by our own of being disloyal, of undermining the club, of failing to support the staff with our money. It turns out another prophecy was correct, not one single penny of that money went to a staff member until today.
The mindset of the 'Lemmings' as i've termed them doesn't require analysis, they're open and quite brazen about it. They tell me they're only interested in football, they are actively putting their hands over their ears and shouting "LA LA LA" to block out what they see as 'politics'...........they just want to watch a game of football. They have broken the connection to the soul of the club, burying their heads to the 'politics' means they therefore feel confused and angry when their team remains pitifully sh1t each week. And what is the default position of the football fan when his team is sh1t?........sack the manager!.
It's why gates have stayed roughly at 6,000 despite defeat after defeat. The appeasers remain stubbornly committed to their version of 'support' while the militants remain stubbornly committed to their version of 'support' by staying away and trying to starve them out. I've alluded to it already, we're a stubborn race in the south-west, often to a fault.
I came to Gillingham in solidarity a couple of times and I can vouch for that spirit first hand Herne. It's why when a significant event arose in your plight since the Goldstone i've been telling our lot to take note, convinced as I was that in the self same circumstances I KNEW we wouldn't react in the same unified manner.
In fact it seems fate has placed me at most of the significant events in Albions struggle.................instead of getting my fix at the Broadfield it's about time I got round to going to the AMEX, especially seeing as the present Mrs Smiffy has access to a corporate sleeze box.